SWAPA NO voters

[mokitty]

450 guys/gals will be under you. Plus the SW pilots hired after the announcement.

Well someone's gotta fly the 717 on the Airtran side till 2015. My bet is it will be those on the junior side. Thus, Islanddriver has a point. Those coming over to be 737 FOs will most likely be senior to him. Making his short term life status quo at best, and backwards moving to the west coast reserve system at worst.

I'm a 2006 hire and can see a scenario where my life could get worse in domicile. SWA pilots may be seeing global seniority percentage increases, but in the micro world of seat and domicile backwards movement could happen depending on the Airtran reshuffle bid. Especially east coast bases.

 

[fam62c]

Well someone's gotta fly the 717 on the Airtran side till 2015. My bet is it will be those on the junior side. Thus, Islanddriver has a point. Those coming over to be 737 FOs will most likely be senior to him. Making his short term life status quo at best, and backwards moving to the west coast reserve system at worst.

I'm a 2006 hire and can see a scenario where my life could get worse in domicile. SWA pilots may be seeing global seniority percentage increases, but in the micro world of seat and domicile backwards movement could happen depending on the Airtran reshuffle bid. Especially east coast bases.

It's tough to know what will happen because there just isn't that much information. As the AT 737 pilots come over AT 737's are going to come over as well so the ratio of pilots to airframes shouldn't change. A lot depends on where they put the AT 737's, they have to go somewhere so there will have to be more pilots in some bases than there are now. The whole dynamic could also change if a new SW 737 crew base is opened depending on whether or not it's a place people want to go to or an unpopular place. Fifty+ 737's and their crews need to go somewhere. It does look like the AT pilots who will be flying 737 FO on the SW side will not be junior people. They will be a mix of senior FO's from both planes, junior CA's from both planes and probably a few more senior CA's from both planes for base/QOL reasons. However, in the case of the AT senior FO's and junior CA's once their DOH is adjusted they won't be as senior at SW and will be below many SW pilots with later hire dates. It's by no means a perfect situation for many pilots on both sides but that's the way these things go. Time, retirements and hopefully growth will fix most things eventually.

I try to think a few years down the road and hope that the company has some nice growth opportunities once the integration, fleet and route system gets optimized. International can be expanded, the Wright Amendment will go away, retirements will resume, the networks will be joined and some competitors may have to pull back creating some potential opportunities in several cities. The combined company should have a lot of competitive horsepower once things are firing on all cylinders. I like to think that five years from now most of us (there will always be some who will never accept reality and will be miserable to work with) will have largely forgotten about the bumps in the road during the integration.

 

[carl p]

I try to think a few years down the road and hope that the company has some nice growth opportunities once the integration, fleet and route system gets optimized. International can be expanded, the Wright Amendment will go away, retirements will resume, the networks will be joined and some competitors may have to pull back creating some potential opportunities in several cities. The combined company should have a lot of competitive horsepower once things are firing on all cylinders. I like to think that five years from now most of us (there will always be some who will never accept reality and will be miserable to work with) will have largely forgotten about the bumps in the road during the integration.

That would be nice.

 

[GuppyWN]

+1

Gup

 

[JT12345]

What I like about the new deal.

Less loopholes and less bullsh!t down the road. Most of the stuff I found insulting and divisive is gone. Most of the grievances i saw in the possible future, gone.

For small segments it is better, and for some small segements it is worst. Waiting for the pay sucks for all AT.

 

[waveflyer]

No it doesn't- you got an improved contract w/o striking and will get the money-
Those are good things- don't spin it to Suck bc you won't get it as quick as you thought

 

[JT12345]

I was not spinning anything. I don't get how u read that? Please explain?

 

[waveflyer]

. Waiting for the pay sucks for all AT.

That part--^^ not a big deal- just a perspective thing.
I fielded a dozen calls today when we announced hiring- some from people who really need a job-
It was a humbling day,in this economy, hearing some of the stories- and I just got another raise

 

[JT12345]

Yeah well it is good to have a job and it looks like you guys are as happy as I am the fences are gone.

As for the economy it is sad and the kids are pissed off in New York about it.

Me, I think I will end up in China in ten years for work. The jobs are not coming back in this country. Being high skilled helps.

The average yearly salaries:

US 40k
EUR 35k
MEX 8k

and

China 3k/year

for doing the same jobs. There is not a stimulus or tax break or politician that can stop the jobs going there when you get the workers for 12 times less than here.

Either they come up or we come down. Something has to give. (Same thing in the airlines here) Like the Arab spring and rebellions we have to hope they rebel and demand more in China; that they come up a lot, so we don't have to come down so much.

The poverty level here at 100 million is not a joke but nothing compared to overthere. Here they still have a roof and their DVDs and MTVs. Over there in China 700 million are poor [half the population], and when I mean poor they are living in shacks in the hills with no electric. The kids will do anything to get out of that. They work 18 hour days, and get maybe one day off every 2-3 weeks because the human body needs sun and it will affect productivity if they don't get some.

 

[JT12345]

And you know. I don't like the excuses I am hearing about why we have to pull out of some of the markets AAI serves. Cause the costs are to high because of union contracts and scope. That we can't have contract workers, so SWA can't afford to operate in there.

I have been talking about competitive problems at SWA, and here they are. The labor over there forcing management to pull out of markets that can be profitable at AAI, but not at SWA. I am not saying our seasonal work has to be done by contract rampers and gate agents, but you can't TDY or give some relief.

Not a good sign of times ahead if things don't change. Culture check maybe?

 

[Ty Webb]

No it doesn't- you got an improved contract w/o striking and will get the money-
Those are good things- don't spin it to Suck bc you won't get it as quick as you thought

Wave, when you start commenting on internal AAI stuff, you lose a lot of credibility.

I, along with most other AAI Captains, got a whopping 8% raise, after 6 years of negotiations. We would have gotten 20-30%. I'll be on this contract for 4 years. Thanks a bunch.

 

[slaquer5]

I have been talking about competitive problems at SWA, and here they are. The labor over there forcing management to pull out of markets that can be profitable at AAI, but not at SWA. [/B] I am not saying our seasonal work has to be done by contract rampers and gate agents, but you can't TDY or give some relief.

Not a good sign of times ahead if things don't change. Culture check maybe?

JT

I think it more of how SWA operates. It typically has been SWA does not want to serve a city that they can have at-least 15 flights a day. Herb calls this the low hanging fruit. there is no way SWA can keep all the AT cities. Some will go away others will go from 5 flights a day to over 15 flights a day.

PS trust me you not be going overseas in 10 years for a job.

 

[Beechdriver32]

Ty-

Is that the 'would have gotten 20-30% raise' before or after you went on strike.

Talk about credibility? Come on, man--

Life is gonna be better, but only if you accept it will.

Or you can keep whining, I guess.

 

[GuppyWN]

And you know. I don't like the excuses I am hearing about why we have to pull out of some of the markets AAI serves. Cause the costs are to high because of union contracts and scope. That we can't have contract workers, so SWA can't afford to operate in there.

Codeshare is the cancer of this industry and I would like to think you'd rather not farm out YOUR job to the next lowest bidder.

Gup

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty-

Is that the 'would have gotten 20-30% raise' before or after you went on strike.

Talk about credibility? Come on, man--

Life is gonna be better, but only if you accept it will.

Or you can keep whining, I guess.

I'm not whining, just trying to set the record straight.

Thanks for all the free advice, though. :laugh:

 

[SWA Bubba]

Wave, when you start commenting on internal AAI stuff, you lose a lot of credibility.

I, along with most other AAI Captains, got a whopping 8% raise, after 6 years of negotiations. We would have gotten 20-30%. I'll be on this contract for 4 years. Thanks a bunch.

I'm sorry, I'm a little confused. "We would have gotten 20-30%."? Exactly when would you have gotten that? After you literally held a gun to Fornaro's wife's head? Your negotiations were going nowhere. Whether you admit it or not, the ONLY reason you got a contract with raises & other improvements was due to SWA buying Airtran. Fornaro didn't want to lose out. If you had struck, the deal would probably have been off. And guess who was on the hook to pay a break-up fee if the deal was canceled? Airtran, that's who. NOT SWA. Fornaro only gave you that contract for two reasons: If the acquisition failed he'd miss out on his personal $3-4M payday, and more importantly, he knew it wasn't gonna' be HIM issuing the paychecks. At that point, he could have cared less about whether giving you any raise fit his business model.

Wanting 20-30% and "would have gotten" 20-30% are vastly different things, Ty. If you think you would have gotten that, why did you settle for 8%? Why didn't you continue your chosen path of further negotiation and/or strike? I think you're being a little disingenuous here. There's no way you would have gotten that raise you wanted without burning the company down. I serriously doubt you would have gotten what you DID get without the SWA acquisition.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Wave, when you start commenting on internal AAI stuff, you lose a lot of credibility.

I, along with most other AAI Captains, got a whopping 8% raise, after 6 years of negotiations. We would have gotten 20-30%. I'll be on this contract for 4 years. Thanks a bunch.

Oh yeah, not to pick nits, but an "8% payraise" isn't exactly accurate either. From old AAI contract to new AAI contract:

8 year CA: 131.87/hr to 149.01/hr or 13.0% payraise instantly
8 year FO: 79.12/hr to 95.08/hr or 20.2% payraise instantly

This is only a snapshot, but I have both contracts. It's very similar across the board. Looks like some of you got your 20% after all. Say, "Thank you SWA for buying Airtran."

Bubba

 

[Ty Webb]

Oh yeah, not to pick nits, but an "8% payraise" isn't exactly accurate either. From old AAI contract to new AAI contract:

8 year CA: 131.87/hr to 149.01/hr or 13.0% payraise instantly
8 year FO: 79.12/hr to 95.08/hr or 20.2% payraise instantly

This is only a snapshot, but I have both contracts. It's very similar across the board. Looks like some of you got your 20% after all. Say, "Thank you SWA for buying Airtran."

Bubba

Read what I wrote. I got 8%, which was typical of our Captains.

When you factor in 6 years of negotiations, and the 4 years until 1/2015, it doesn't even keep up with inflation. . . . . It's actually concessionary.

Thanks for the gumball,. Mickey.

 

[Ty Webb]

I'm sorry, I'm a little confused. "We would have gotten 20-30%."? Exactly when would you have gotten that? After you literally held a gun to Fornaro's wife's head? Your negotiations were going nowhere.
Bubba

"Going nowhere"? We had already TA'd 18 out of 20 Sections when the merger was announced.

As I said, when you start opining about our internal business, you sound foolish.

I can tell you that when I start flying with SWA pilots, I won't be bringing up or discussing SWAPA's past history, because it isn't my business, and it would be in bad form . . . . but hey, don't let that stop you . . . . :erm:

Not sure why you guys want to keep revisiting this stuff, but I'm done with this conversation. Schlong!

 

[SWA Bubba]

Read what I wrote. I got 8%, which was typical of our Captains.

When you factor in 6 years of negotiations, and the 4 years until 1/2015, it doesn't even keep up with inflation. . . . . It's actually concessionary.

Thanks for the gumball,. Mickey.

Only typical for your senior captains. Captains with 9 years or less service got more. First officers got huge raises:

Yrs CA FO
5 12% 26%
6 10% 25%
7 9% 19%
8 13% 20%
9 12% 22%
10 8% 25%

For the remaining 4 years of the contract, the raises total up to 8 -10% straight across a given year of longevity. Since you said you got 8% in the deal, I assume you're at 10 years. The remaining 4 years for you total another 18.3% of your 2010 rate (10% inflation, and the rest longevity steps, of which more were added in the new contract). I should hope that covers inflation for the next 4 years; at any rate, it's not exactly concessionary.

The fact that what you got in this deal didn't cover inflation for the six years between this and your old contract is hardly SWA's fault.

Bubba