SWAPA might like SWA proposal

[Lear70]

I'm far more worried about MCO in this regard....... We've had guys playing the forced displacement game for about 4 years now. It would suck if they weren't protected too.

The 717 MCO pilots are protected in MCO, but that won't figure into SWA seniority as the plane is fenced for 10 years.

The AirTran 737 MCO pilots are not base-protected. The base was considered "not yet open" (it became effective 10/1 for the first MCO pilots), so ALL AirTran pilots will be considered ATL-based when they "cross the fence" after training.

It's too early to tell how it will affect the MCO list. How much MCO-BWI and similar overlap do we have? We have a lot of international flying that will have to be staffed, but how much is reduced from overlap and how much new flying is added? Big question marks that will take a long while to figure out. Training won't even start until March or April for the first people to cross over, we don't know which bases and planes they'll try to train first, lots and lots of unanswered questions, but hope that answers at least part of your worry about MCO.

 

[GuppyWN]

Lear,

What have you done with the Lear from the past 6 months?

I agree and that was a great post. We have all said some things over the past few months that we would like to have back. Now that the emotions and speculating is dying down it will be fun to see where we go - unified.

Gup

 

[redflyer65]

I thought all AAI FO's would be on the bottom and very few AAI CA's would hold their seat. But it looks like it was struck somewhere in the middle. The AAI seniority hit was a certainty, with either negotiation or arbitration.

Nice post Lear, I think we are all waiting patiently to see the full language. Thanks for posting some of the original bullet points. We may not agree on everything, but I believe you posted what was out there, without the spin.

RF

 

[Daddy]

What convention was supposedly used for the SLI? It does not appear to be straight up DOH minus 4 years...is it a (5:1?) ratio starting at DOH then?

If not, why does it not stick to a particular convention?

 

[jball2]

Lear,

Any word on the ATL fence?

 

[MRW]

I will agree that the pay increase is similar to an upgrade. However, if you lose 3-4 years of seniority, will I hold weekends off? holidays? like I do now. I will have to wait to see the whole thing.

My point in that matter is when you consider this an "upgrade" you wouldn't have held the weekends or holidays off at AT if you were a brand new capt having just gone through an "upgrade"

 

[MRW]

Heard today that 200 more new hires this fall to staff increase in aircraft at beginning of year. We will see. That has nothing to do with AT folks....these are straight new hires!

 

[redflyer65]

For what it's worth, I heard hiring this fall but didn't hear the actual numbers. Good information for all!

 

[afhercdriver]

Heard today that 200 more new hires this fall to staff increase in aircraft at beginning of year. We will see. That has nothing to do with AT folks....these are straight new hires!

Before I call my buds and get their hopes up can you sight your source?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

What have you done with the Lear from the past 6 months?

I agree and that was a great post. We have all said some things over the past few months that we would like to have back. Now that the emotions and speculating is dying down it will be fun to see where we go - unified.

Gup

*chuckle* Warrior spirit, my friend. Both sides argued passionately (and you're probably right about wanting to take back things said from time to time), but once the battle is done, everyone needs to get on the same page moving forward.

We may not be there yet, still have to draft final language, get final approval from your BoD and our MEC and then pilot voting, but if it's all ratified, you're absolutely right: time to move forward unified.

 

[Lear70]

Heard today that 200 more new hires this fall to staff increase in aircraft at beginning of year. We will see. That has nothing to do with AT folks....these are straight new hires!

Good news and makes sense, our delivery schedule had those planes coming on line 4th Q 2011 so they'll need people to staff, assuming Southwest kept that delivery schedule.

 

[Music]

I gotta tell you, I think the server that hosts the ATNMEC forum is gonna melt. The amount of concurrent threads and NON-info is approaching epic proportions. Lear is right on the money with what we know so far (which isn't much, just bullets). Everyone needs to take a deep breath, one way or another, we appear to be headed for the end game with this thing and we just have to wait until we have some actual language to look at.

I for one have not spoke publicly about my expectations and have only argued for civility. As an 11 year AirTran 737 Captain/Check Airman, my only expectation in this whole thing was that it wouldn't disrupt my life too much (my ultimate seat was never an issue for me, FWIW). With the AIP, I'll admit that the relative seniority loss is a lot to digest, however I will not get spun out of control over hearsay and what-ifs. I believe all of us need to wait for the actual document (provided it's sent to us to vote on) read it through at least twice, and then decide accordingly.

 

[Lear70]

What convention was supposedly used for the SLI? It does not appear to be straight up DOH minus 4 years...is it a (5:1?) ratio starting at DOH then?

If not, why does it not stick to a particular convention?

It's not. There are different ratios for different seniority blocks.

It's complicated as crap and was done primarily in order to smooth out any bottlenecks of relative seniority progression and upgrade progression for your pilots (at least that's what I was told).

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

I agree that we all need to see what is in the full document before we make any kind of decision much less get spun into the ceiling. The only X factor here for the AAI pilots is not knowing the SWAPA contract and how that will affect their QOL. If this gets to the membership for a vote I intend to start a Q and A thread.

 

[Empennage]

I gotta tell you, I think the server that hosts the ATNMEC forum is gonna melt. The amount of concurrent threads and NON-info is approaching epic proportions. Lear is right on the money with what we know so far (which isn't much, just bullets). Everyone needs to take a deep breath, one way or another, we appear to be headed for the end game with this thing and we just have to wait until we have some actual language to look at.

I for one have not spoke publicly about my expectations and have only argued for civility. As an 11 year AirTran 737 Captain/Check Airman, my only expectation in this whole thing was that it wouldn't disrupt my life too much (my ultimate seat was never an issue for me, FWIW). With the AIP, I'll admit that the relative seniority loss is a lot to digest, however I will not get spun out of control over hearsay and what-ifs. I believe all of us need to wait for the actual document (provided it's sent to us to vote on) read it through at least twice, and then decide accordingly.

The Swapa site is oddly quiet. Only 1 or 2 threads with zero specifics. I think that's another reason why some on this board are stating where the leaks are coming from.

On another note I wanted to thank you and Lear for your professionalism and continued commitment to the process.

E

 

[Ualexpress]

I have a pretty good idea what the junior bases are for FOs (OAK, LAS, etc), but what are the junior bases for Captains? I know it varies seasonally, but generally what are the junior bases for Captains?

 

[redflyer65]

OAK and BWI actually. A few months ago, some OAK guys got displaced to BWI. I think most of them are back now. I would say LAS would be next junior in line.

 

[Ualexpress]

Thanks Red!

 

[hairball1173]

What is the junior fo bases and how many numbers till you can get on the east coast? Also, how does DAL and or HOU shake out?

Thanks

 

[redflyer65]

I'll have to get back to you on hard numbers, but generally we had Jan. 2011 newhires get both MDW and BWI (east coast commuters). Houston is a possiblity for early 2008 hires.

Dallas has always been hard to get into unless you have a ton of seniority..in either seat.

MCO is very transitional with the winter/summer schedule. 2008 hire FO's have the most bottom spots.

Try to find you real numbers later, unless someone else jumps in.