SWAPA does not lose anything for the AAI raise

[madjack]

CM,

Good point, hey I don't mind the AAI guys going for more, I admire their ballsy move, but I don't like it when then try to blame the SWA folks or call it something other than what it really is: a pay and seniority grab made possible by M/B...

 

[JT12345]

JT,

Do you understand how greedy the AAI pilots are coming off to just about every SW employee right now? Not just the SW pilots, but other groups are scratching their heads to how these guys could pass up the pay protections that over 6000 street pilots would give their left nut for.

Are you that obtuse?

I am not a new hire and this is not a fire sale.

No dude. The consensus from FI atleast is that you guys are being greedy and trying to bully the minority. Most pilots from other airlines are posting that on here.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Most pilots from other airlines are posting that on here.

Exactly. To those of us who are casual outside observers, the outcome is clear.

And it isn't going to make the SWA f/os happy.

 

[SkiFishFly]

JT,

Do you understand how greedy the AAI pilots are coming off to just about every SW employee right now? Not just the SW pilots, but other groups are scratching their heads to how these guys could pass up the pay protections that over 6000 street pilots would give their left nut for.

Are you that obtuse?

The protections as written were full of holes. We are used to dealing with management that will utilize such holes at every turn.

The loss of seniority was too great - especially in light of weak protections.

How is the desire of SWA to discount our DOH by 4 years not a greedy seniority grab?

 

[frqntflyr]

JT,

I posted an answer to your question. Care to counter?

 

[madjack]

"The consensus from FI atleast is that you guys are being greedy"

How is sharing in the gains greedy?...how is keeping seniority (at the expense of the SWA pilots) AND gaining 2mil individually and 2-3 bill collectively not construed by the FI mind trust as NOT greedy...I can only attribute it to loneliness, disgruntledness, entitledness and jealousy...

 

[JT12345]

I will take a stab at this one. One must assume that SWA has a certain amount of $ to spend on labor. I believe this assumption will be met with little resistance. If we agree on this, then we agree it becomes a zero-sum game. You squeeze one side of the balloon and the other side inflates. For GK to invest so much $ to appease the AAI pilots means a commensurate amount less $ during our next sec. 6 and for current SWAPA pilots in the now dead SL9.

++++ good one

AAI pilots have been harping about seniority being the only important thing, and money not being an issue. We soon will find out exactly how true these statements are. I for one would give up most of my seniority tomorrow if I was offered the left seat even without a safe haven base.

You don't speak for the majority then.+++++++++

AAI pilots have epitomized the adage "Have your cake and eat it too". You want seniority AND the money. You make hollow arguments about bringing jets and growth, yet fail to acknowledge the contract, routes, bases, stability, and management relations (something you should REALLY appreciate) we bring to the table.

spin spin spin+++++++++++++++

You fail to acknowledge that your pilot group is MUCH younger due to lower hiring standards. You fail to recognize that this would lead to a lopsided seniority list in the future. Even Eischen realized that fact in the DAL/NWA SLI.

You arrogant fek. We have the same hourly requirements at SWA.}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I feel your MEC has failed you miserably. Perhaps they thought our management are softies. Quite the contrary, and you will slowly see events unfold that will leave you begging for SL9 back. Our pilots are more unified now than ever. From the super senior to the bottom of the list we are conveying our steadfast resolve to keep SWA a great place to work. The actions of your MEC, dirty negotiating tactics, delays, and rhetoric on these message boards do not belong at SWA. They are NOT the spirit of SWA. GK is giving you a wake up call. I can assure you any other deal on the table will not be as productive for AAI pilots as SL9, but I feel you will be begging to vote it in IF it comes.

spin spin spin ego ego ego_______)))))))))))))))))))

yeah like he could come up with much worse!

 

[bravodude]

Why do you guys at SWAPA think that because we are getting a pay raise that you need to gain something from that?

You are not lossing a dam think from AAI guys getting a pay bump from this merger.

For you to gain something we have to loose something. Big because you are three times the size. Stop picking on the little guys.

Now I know there are issues with retirements, and upgrades. Lets make a deal.


__________________________________

Yes AAI grew faster and have young Captains..... but you guys got paid these last few years at the expense of growth rate. Both sides knew the types of companies we went to work for and the expectations in this business are fleeting. You roll the dice, and the chips fall where they may. You make your choices and thats that. Deserving has got nothing to do with it.

This merger was not to do the pilots any favors. This merger is good for both companies to compete in the market place and survive, and in that respect... that is what Airtran brings to the table. It is why you bought us. This is not a fire sale.

The only reason you got that pay raise was because GK gave as a 1.25 multiplier if a senior FO should happen to fly with a junior AT captain SOOOOOOOOO it was the AT MC that went back to GK and cried ME TOO, ME TOO. Next time get your facts straight.

As for lets make a deal I'm sure you have already read our MEC update so NO DEAL, all of your SWA benefits and pay are gone. There is no more negotiation you guys are going to get exactly what you want. A third party that has never been a pilot deciding our fate with a CEO that will eventually have to make a choice between 6000 ORIGINAL SWA pilots and 1700 trannys!

For what its worth I don't care that you guys hated the agreement I think everyone should have had a chance to vote on it.

 

[texman]

You have the contract. We have the growth (expectation). I can say we have kept SWA from growing. Out competed SWA in markets like MKE, BWI, BOS, and MCO. I think our openning an MCO pilot base was the last straw for GK, and he gave Bob a call

You guys know how to make money. We know how to get other airlires to lose money.

Its is going to ge a great team once we get this worked out.

Just don't fek me over.

You never had growth expectations. Your company while somewhat profitable never had the money in the long run to compete with SWA. Plus ask Bob F why he Fek you over.

 

[JT12345]

JT,

I posted an answer to your question. Care to counter?

I was. Airtran turned down a lot of pilots dude. You need turbine Captain experience to qualify. Min was 500. Most had atleast 2000-3000 Turbine PIC.

 

[JT12345]

You never had growth expectations. Your company while somewhat profitable never had the money in the long run to compete with SWA. Plus ask Bob F why he Fek you over.

When I was hired we were getting 50 737s. 2 a month. Another 100 options. I was going to be a senior FO quick.

That was the growth. And we were the first airline to hire pilots after the crash in OCT08. GK took notice then I bet along with the rest of the industry.

And your recent growth was at our expense. You have our orders.

 

[frqntflyr]

JT,

Resorting to name calling seems a bit uncalled for don't you think? I will refrain from dishing out insults, but will point out an error. After using an unimaginative expletive you assert that hiring mins were exactly the same. Exactly how much PIC turbine was required to join AAI? That is a rhetorical question by the way.

 

[madjack]

If AAI was the place to be, why did AAI pilots (some CPS) leave AAI to start over at the bottom at SWA?? Yes we had SWA pilots leave for other airlines (one I know went to FEDEX, one I know went corporate to be home more) but the case we are discussing now is career expectations at SWA vs AAI??

 

[The Victors]

It's ok guys. The tranny's don't understand the list. The list of SL 9 was the only way to prevent harm to our pilot's careers. Putting Tran CA's above our FO's and putting their FO's amongst our FO's on a seniority list will harm the career earnings for SWA pilots. This can be proven. They want billions in career earnings and our seniority at the expense of SWA pilot's careers. Did I mention that SWA is the acquiring carrier? This is all mute anyway. Management now "see's" their true colors and the other shoe will drop soon. Good Luck, Tranny's. Seriously.

 

[Tripower455]

Exactly. To those of us who are casual outside observers, the outcome is clear.

And it isn't going to make the SWA f/os happy.

Since when are you a "casual observer" in this? You've got more posts in AAI/SWA related threads than all the SWA and AAI guys combined!

Same goes for OYS/General Lee, or are you yet another of his/her troll manifestations?