SWAPA Comments about 717

[scoreboardII]

The question is, what will AAI ALPA convince SWA to give up in exchange for changing that provision of the SIA? That's the only leverage we have, unless we want to push harder, which might make them re-think the furlough lever they can pull.

Tricky stuff.

Tricky indeed, one red cent is all it takes for SWAPA to file suit.

 

[27 driver]

Tricky indeed, one red cent is all it takes for SWAPA to file suit.

So you want the AAI guys paid less. SWAPA shouldn't have any input on negotiations that happen on our side of the partition. They don't want to represent us. Are you saying that if we are offered anything SWAPA will grieve it? If so that sucks.

 

[FIREMAN]

Tricky indeed, one red cent is all it takes for SWAPA to file suit.

And that explains how we got here. What a bunch of unbelievable ****************************************.

 

[wood pecker]

In the last month I flew with 3 AAI 717 capt that want a re-bid purely for becoming a top FO in DEN which wasn't a choice until after our first bid. Has any math been done to see how many people would run to DEN yet?

 

[PCL_128]

Tricky indeed, one red cent is all it takes for SWAPA to file suit.

And on what grounds exactly would that suit be filed?

 

[Stewie]

Tricky indeed, one red cent is all it takes for SWAPA to file suit.

Wow. You didn't get enough already? A bone thrown to AAI guys that doesn't affect you at all will make you want more? You'll be fun to work with. Can't wait.

 

[Spud]

tricky indeed, one red cent is all it takes for swapa to file suit.

wow...

 

[madjack]

Good news: there will be no lawsuit by SWAPA
Bad news: there will be no money

I hope I am wrong (about the money)

 

[scoreboardII]

Has nothing to do with money, but if SWA decides to payoff some AT guys beyond the SLI agreement, SWAPA will be there to remind them of the other 6500 pilots.

Welcome aboard.

 

[redflyer65]

Just as if Southwest elected to award 1000 shares of stock to all SWAPA members for a job well done. I don't think that would go over very well either.

 

[malibuVride]

That's the only leverage we have, unless we want to push harder, which might make them re-think the furlough lever they can pull.

Tricky stuff.

I don't quite understand why fragmentation language won't apply. Maybe SWA mgmt can't be forced into it by SWAPA, but what if the ATN pilots desire to be sent away via fragmentation? There are many that just don't care to be SWA pilots at this point. So why not let us go? Everybody wins.

 

[MILF Hunter]

So you want the AAI guys paid less. SWAPA shouldn't have any input on negotiations that happen on our side of the partition. They don't want to represent us. Are you saying that if we are offered anything SWAPA will grieve it? If so that sucks.

Its just principle. The ATN MEC said no to the first SLI. In the second, money was taken off the table but more seniority was shifted to their side. Because the two (pay and seniority) were so directly linked through the negotiations that led up to the final deal, it simply would be wrong to address only one part now.

By your logic, we could say that the 717 deal negatively affects the bidding seniority of some of our junior FOs therefore we need mgmt to change the SLI a bit.

 

[PanPan]

Its just principle. The ATN MEC said no to the first SLI. In the second, money was taken off the table but more seniority was shifted to their side. Because the two (pay and seniority) were so directly linked through the negotiations that led up to the final deal, it simply would be wrong to address only one part now.

By your logic, we could say that the 717 deal negatively affects the bidding seniority of some of our junior FOs therefore we need mgmt to change the SLI a bit.

No need to change anything in the SLI agreement. Simply amend the FL contract to mirror SW rates now. Then create one of your side letters that increases OSW guys longevity for pay by a bit. Your longevity for pay doesn't affect my life and my pay rate at AT doesn't affect yours.

 

[texman]

Lear or somebody explain how the 717 going away sooner makes SWA financially responsible to pay more before 2015. Just asking a question, so Don't get fired up people.

 

[dicko]

Just as if Southwest elected to award 1000 shares of stock to all SWAPA members for a job well done. I don't think that would go over very well either.

Nor would it surprise a single AirTran pilot. Perhaps SWAPA needs to join USAPA. Same culture.

 

[texman]

Ahhhhhh, the litte bear is out!lol

 

[FlyinGuy]

There will be no money!!! I hope none of you are setting your expectations too high. GK will not do any payouts. That is just how he negotiates. The only carrot that GK could possibly offer to the AT side is to come up to or closer to SWA rates. IMO, that will never happen because he does not like to let go of the money.

AT ALPA will go into negotiate with GK expecting some payout or increase in pay and they will come out with a "no furlough" promise. They will also get some type of ATL domicile guarantee. Those do not cost him anything, but he will pressure you guys to take the "offer". What will upset his cart is if you guys tell him to stick it and challenge him to furlough!! That is a scary game of chicken to play (especially for those on the bottom), but that will be the only way to call his bluff. He does not want to be the guy that furloughed, but I also think he would go that route way before Herb ever would have.

Best of luck to us all.

 

[redflyer65]

There will be no money!!! I hope none of you are setting your expectations too high. GK will not do any payouts. That is just how he negotiates. The only carrot that GK could possibly offer to the AT side is to come up to or closer to SWA rates. IMO, that will never happen because he does not like to let go of the money.

AT ALPA will go into negotiate with GK expecting some payout or increase in pay and they will come out with a "no furlough" promise. They will also get some type of ATL domicile guarantee. Those do not cost him anything, but he will pressure you guys to take the "offer". What will upset his cart is if you guys tell him to stick it and challenge him to furlough!! That is a scary game of chicken to play (especially for those on the bottom), but that will be the only way to call his bluff. He does not want to be the guy that furloughed, but I also think he would go that route way before Herb ever would have.

Best of luck to us all.

This ^^^^^

Quit crying Dicko, the agreement is the agreement....ON BOTH SIDES.

 

[27 driver]

Its just principle. The ATN MEC said no to the first SLI. In the second, money was taken off the table but more seniority was shifted to their side. Because the two (pay and seniority) were so directly linked through the negotiations that led up to the final deal, it simply would be wrong to address only one part now.

By your logic, we could say that the 717 deal negatively affects the bidding seniority of some of our junior FOs therefore we need mgmt to change the SLI a bit.

Deleted. Not worth it.

 

[waveflyer]

I don't quite understand why fragmentation language won't apply. Maybe SWA mgmt can't be forced into it by SWAPA, but what if the ATN pilots desire to be sent away via fragmentation? There are many that just don't care to be SWA pilots at this point. So why not let us go? Everybody wins.

Agree 100%

People are happier when they have a choice-