SWAPA Comments about 717

[humveedriver]

Angst on the swa side???? Maybe a few radicals are but, the vast majority are pretty happy with the outcome.

Dude. They had the best thing going and Gary Kelly screwed it up for them.
To a pilot they wish he had not bought us or at a minimum only the 737's, something to take M/B out of the picture. Remember. He pointed a gun at them just like he did us. Different reasons. Same result. It's hard to say our screwing was worse than your screwing to our new brothers. It is acceptable to say it to SWA management though IMO. If you read the our internal forum you know SWa management is at least listening to what we have to say. If they ignore us,well, that will be that. It will take our folks longer to move on. I have no idea what would help smooth things over for the SWA side, cause it's not like everyone is upgrading and their junior folks are about to get displaced over the next 3 years.

 

[Uppercrust]

At the very least we at Airtran need SWA pay now and possible revisit of the SLI. If not then things could get real ugly quick.

 

[shootr]

The SLI revisit won't happen. It's signed and SWAPA won't give up what we have. I TOTALLY agree you guys need to be on our pay scale, yesterday. I'd fight with you on that point and I'll picket if asked.

shootr

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

I'd love to revisit the SLI. Let's do it.

 

[Lear70]

The SLI revisit won't happen. It's signed and SWAPA won't give up what we have. I TOTALLY agree you guys need to be on our pay scale, yesterday. I'd fight with you on that point and I'll picket if asked.

shootr

Thanks, that means a lot. Really.

Snap-up to the Pay Rates that were in AIP 1 effective immediately and a re-bid of the flush bid would be my suggestions.

Right now, contractually-speaking, Southwest does not have the option to bring people straight across the partition to 737 F/O if their equipment bid was 717. If they do, you'll end up with a grievance from every single person senior to them with a 737 F/O bid in place for the pay difference of SWA pay.

Although there is an allowance in SL10 for what happens if there is no 717 to bid into upon arrival at Southwest, the way our LOA is set up, even though it allows them to pull from whatever seat, aircraft, and base they want to come to Southwest, it does so based on the original seniority-based flush bid. Knowing that there is no 717 to bid into at Southwest, not re-bidding the flush bid will result in them KNOWINGLY pulling people out of seniority order from the 717 going to an award (737 SWA F/O) that someone senior to them at AirTran bid and held.

Knowing that they'll have to figure out something for that provision, I'm patiently waiting to hear more information, knowing that there's other portions of the 717 deal that are still contingent on passing (Delta vote, other vendor approval, etc) to where this thing may still fall apart and even if it doesn't, it will be some time before Southwest has to negotiate changes.

I'm not expecting any news in any kind of hurry. Just relaxing, enjoying my Memorial Day Weekend, and urging my fellow AirTran AND Southwest brethren to do the same. Can't fix anything and getting irritated at each other is kind of pointless, since no one on here is responsible for what's going on.

We're all just pilots; be cool to each other. :beer:

 

[THEPRFCT10]

Thanks, that means a lot. Really.

Snap-up to the Pay Rates that were in AIP 1 effective immediately and a re-bid of the flush bid would be my suggestions.

Right now, contractually-speaking, Southwest does not have the option to bring people straight across the partition to 737 F/O if their equipment bid was 717. If they do, you'll end up with a grievance from every single person senior to them with a 737 F/O bid in place for the pay difference of SWA pay.

Although there is an allowance in SL10 for what happens if there is no 717 to bid into upon arrival at Southwest, the way our LOA is set up, even though it allows them to pull from whatever seat, aircraft, and base they want to come to Southwest, it does so based on the original seniority-based flush bid. Knowing that there is no 717 to bid into at Southwest, not re-bidding the flush bid will result in them KNOWINGLY pulling people out of seniority order from the 717 going to an award (737 SWA F/O) that someone senior to them at AirTran bid and held.

Knowing that they'll have to figure out something for that provision, I'm patiently waiting to hear more information, knowing that there's other portions of the 717 deal that are still contingent on passing (Delta vote, other vendor approval, etc) to where this thing may still fall apart and even if it doesn't, it will be some time before Southwest has to negotiate changes.

I'm not expecting any news in any kind of hurry. Just relaxing, enjoying my Memorial Day Weekend, and urging my fellow AirTran AND Southwest brethren to do the same. Can't fix anything and getting irritated at each other is kind of pointless, since no one on here is responsible for what's going on.

We're all just pilots; be cool to each other. :beer:

Well said. Cheers! :beer:

 

[waveflyer]

Knowing that they'll have to figure out something for that provision, I'm patiently waiting to hear more information, knowing that there's other portions of the 717 deal that are still contingent on passing (Delta vote, other vendor approval, etc) to where this thing may still fall apart and even if it doesn't, it will be some time before Southwest has to negotiate changes.

I'm not expecting any news in any kind of hurry. Just relaxing, enjoying my Memorial Day Weekend, and urging my fellow AirTran AND Southwest brethren to do the same. Can't fix anything and getting irritated at each other is kind of pointless, since no one on here is responsible for what's going on.

We're all just pilots; be cool to each other. :beer:

Well said

 

[carl p]

The SLI revisit won't happen. It's signed and SWAPA won't give up what we have. I TOTALLY agree you guys need to be on our pay scale, yesterday. I'd fight with you on that point and I'll picket if asked.

shootr

Thanks, we have got to start coming together sooner rather than later.

 

[Quiet Flight]

At the very least we at Airtran need SWA pay now...If not then things could get real ugly quick.

I thought it wasn't about the money?

 

[ATLplt]

I thought it wasn't about the money?

It wasn't if you bid the 717 like a lot of us did. That bid was for quality of life, keeping your captain seat, or maintaining your bidding/vacation seniority. Since all of those now seem to being going away, rendering the bid useless, show us the effing money. I'll gladly trade any extra money for seniority though...which ain't gonna happen.

Every one of us (AT) is likely going to make LESS $$ this year because of the cut in hours, in spite of contractual pay increases. Unreal...

 

[puddlejumper101]

It wasn't if you bid the 717 like a lot of us did. That bid was for quality of life, keeping your captain seat, or maintaining your bidding/vacation seniority. Since all of those now seem to being going away, rendering the bid useless, show us the effing money. I'll gladly trade any extra money for seniority though...which ain't gonna happen.

Every one of us (AT) is likely going to make LESS $$ this year because of the cut in hours, in spite of contractual pay increases. Unreal...

I am hoping there is more news that we haven't heard. I have a feeling we have to wait until Delta approves or turns down their TA before more details make themselves known.

 

[puddlejumper101]

I am not happy with SWAPA right now, and I do want to apologize to Airtran folks on behalf of the union that represents me, and will end up representing you. I know SWAPA reads these boards and I hope they realize that they pissed off their future members by what was said in that letter.

On the other hand, what SWA did with the 717 makes sense if looked at it from a business decision. Let's face it, the 717 was a dead fleet. It wasn't going to get bigger, so if you find a party willing to take them, well...that sounds like a no brainer. When fuel spiked this past winter was when SWA's rhetoric on the 717 got stronger. Bottom line guys, if SWA is taking care of itself, then indirectly it is taking care of it's people. We have gotten so big now that every change will impact someone positively, and negatively at the same time. But if we focus on the forest instead of the trees then what they are doing makes sense. It keeps costs low, and in the end if SWA and it's board of directors are taking care of SWA and its costs, then indirectly it is taking care of all of us. I have a feeling more news will come out, it just can't yet. All I can say is 2015 can't get here fast enough for all of us. Being a 6 year F/O in Orlando, it's not like I am gaining much here either.

 

[FIREMAN]

Everyone talking about there being 36 717s still on the AT side after 1/1/2015 needs to read all the letters again. They say the aircraft will go to delta 3 a month starting middle of next year.No where does it say when and how meany will be taken off line. However, all the letters do say the transition of pilots will continue as planned. One states that transition will be complete by 2015.

 

[Ticker]

By the way, I might as well GFM, everyone else is. Stay classy.

Quote of the week. :beer:

 

[texman]

I hope they are not using our retirements to help offset of the remainder of the airplanes. I will be pissed if so. Anybody have any insight on this? Could it happen. We have about avg 300 hundred retirements from 2013-2015.