SWAPA Comments about 717

[scoreboardII]

Ya think? One Luv has a whole new meaning...

well, it is One LUV, not Two LUV.

 

[fam62c]

You are correct. It is $158,400,000 a year. $150,000 X 88 a/c X 12 months.

I'm not saying that this is wrong and I apologize if I missed some official information but how do we know the specifics of the pending deal between SW, Boeing and DAL?

 

[Diesel-9]

Well, you had me get the calculator out to check the numbers to make sure. The word people had heard from a couple different meetings months ago that the B-717's were available. Airbus also offered to beat any deal offered for the -717's with A319's Then the $150K per a/c for the -717's popped up later and it appears that became the choice. Would be nice to know what the deal is. I doubt it is really contingent on the T/A passing. I'm sure it will be available somewhere in SWA's financial statements.

 

[texman]

SWA will make money on the back side with Boeing. Everybody will win.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Not everybody

 

[redflyer65]

It must suck to double your salary

 

[Kharma Police]

It must suck to double your salary

I'll be happy if I break even but I figure the commute will more than make up for it!

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

It must suck to double your salary

I will make less for the next 5 years than I did last year.

 

[Lear70]

It must suck to double your salary

Ummm, no, not really, no.

I made just shy of $100k last year and both of my friends at my same longevity at Southwest made $137k and 142k respectfully. They also were gone more days than I was from home (I average 18 days off, they average 16). I also won't be anywhere NEAR their seniority level to get good trips and have the ability to surf premium time with some TTGA and POT, I'll be closer to 2-3 years of seniority (barely off reserve). So dropping through ELITT to get back to my happy point of 18-19 days off a month with a 3 on, 4 off, 3 on, 5 off schedule (which is actually 15-16 full days off since the trips are uncommutable on one side or another), I'll probably be closer to $125k-130k a year.

So yes, it's a pay raise but it's not double our salary, I stop getting my weekends and holidays off because of the seniority hit, and I'm in the right seat for 20+ years total time from when I was hired before I upgrade instead of the 8-10 I was planning on at a Stand-alone AirTran.

The benefit to us is we just got a more stable company from a financial standpoint out of the deal, more pilot bases to choose from (hopefully the city I live in eventually), better medical insurance, better retirement in years where the profit sharing exceeds 3% (we just have to contribute our own money to get it and we didn't used to have to), and when I *DO* upgrade, I'll make more, assuming SWA continues to at least get Cost-of-Living raises over the long run, probably about an extra $1,000,000 on the back end to put towards retirement, which is certainly nothing to complain about.

Those are the realistic pros and cons to the deal with the seniority hit we took, at least from a senior F/O standpoint. Everyone's situation is different, it sucks for some more than others (our Captains, for starters) and is great for some (our junior F/O's who were going to get stapled anyway, or close to it, even from a DoH perspective, and didn't have enough aircraft orders to upgrade at AirTran, now they'll make at least $2 Million more over their career, assuming 30 years left in the game which is about average with our hiring ages averaging 30-35 years old on DoH).

I know there are similar stories there, some of your F/O's getting their upgrades earlier than planned with our loss of CA seats and some getting delayed 2-3 years, but possibly not, depending on if the near-international flying expansion yields the RoI GK is looking for and growth starts again, but without the pay increase our pilots will see.

Everyone has to look at it objectively, find some positives for your particular situation, and enjoy your life. You'll give yourself an ulcer (or worse) if you don't.

 

[Lear70]

I will make less for the next 5 years than I did last year.

Most of us will, at least for the next 2-3 years.

With the 5-7 hour per month hit from lower line values down at guarantee plus the complete LACK of premium time availability due to being overstaffed from all the flying reductions SWA pulled out of our system without taking an equivalent number of pilots over the partition, plus having to contribute 10% of your salary now to get the profit sharing, but adding back in half of that in medical benefits, most of us took a 11-12% actual take-home pay cut the second Southwest pulled all that capacity down last Fall/Winter.

That pay cut will continue until we go across the partition; MS in planning says they see no increases in summer and holiday schedules back to previous flying levels for the foreseeable future, at least until next summer (and they don't have those numbers yet but I don't expect to see it then, either).

They also don't plan to increase reserve staffing to keep line holder credit where it used to be, so you still get the dreaded "denied due to low coverage" for your trip trades when you try to do anything but a vertical swap to get higher credit trips, they'll just spread the flying out so that everyone is at guarantee until you cross the partition.

If you're planning the next few years for home buying, etc, plan to be at guarantee as well as less take-home pay for your 401(k) match unless you choose to lose the match. Less than 60% of F/O's were matching the full 10% at last survey from Steve Restifo.

On the up-side, more trips in MCO are becoming commutable on BOTH sides thanks to the trips being worth less time overall, which means more days off at home. Gotta look for a positive side...

 

[vixin]

How long have you been at AAI?

 

[Spud]

It must suck to double your salary

That's funny, I just got done reducing the amount of money I contribute to My Vanguard account a few minutes ago. Good times.

 

[Lear70]

Trick question.

Just hit 6 years a few months ago. The SLI "looks" like a 2.5 year move on Date of Hire, but in actuality, Southwest hired 2-3 times as many people during that time period (2006-2009) than in other years (600-700 a year instead of 200-250), so the actual position on the list leaves me with only about 300 people below me on the SWA list from the pre-announcement date list, 700 or so total including new hires since announcement date, plus the 600 below me here at AAI puts about 1,300 people below me on an 8,000 pilot list, about the bottom 15%-17% of the combined list.

From a Date of Hire integration point, I lost about 1,500 numbers.

At least with the 717 announcement, I'll have another 600 or so 717 F/O's junior to me on the 737 when I transition over, putting me solidly in line-holder territory in most bases, but I won't transition this September as originally thought, it will likely be end of 2014 with the change in training flow and bases that they're pulling from.

Just going with the flow at this point. Can't change it, just being realistic about where I'll be, how it will work, and planning accordingly, enjoying fixing my cars and boat, playing with my son, and not worrying about this stuff anymore. It's just not worth the angst, and what will be, will be. :beer:

 

[texman]

Lear what is your rough new SR # at SWA, 87XXX,89XXX,90XXX,? I am guessing 87XXX

 

[Lear70]

Lear what is your rough new SR # at SWA, 87XXX,89XXX,90XXX,? I am guessing 87XXX

Not sure what my employee number will be yet, but as far as the posted combined list, I'm in the 6900 range out of 7,834 pilots, bottom 12%, the guy just senior to me has a 91xxx number (which is a little worse than I thought, was too busy working on the Terms & Restrictions when the list came out and just eyeballed the list).

The guy just senior to me was hired 2 years and 4 months after I was.

The last guy in the class that ran at SWA a week before my hire date is in the 5,100 range, about an 1,800 number loss from Date of Hire to where I am on the list with that less-than 2.5 year loss from DoH.

That's pretty typical of our F/O's. 2.5 years doesn't sound like much, until you look at how many people were hired during that time at Southwest... At least I won't be on reserve or in LAS or OAK; that would be a horrible commute. Praying for more growth, organically, please.