SWAPA Comments about 717

[Luv2BFlyin]

I truly hope you are a minority. I'll say it again, where would AT be if SWA did not aquire it? Just a thought, not meant to be condescending. Were AT pilots getting ready to strike? At least we have a job, like it or not we have to move on. I met my first AT guy in the lounge last week. Seemed like a good guy very willing to get up to speed on things.

We'll never know where AT would have been. However, looking at all the metrics, AT was further ahead than SW was at the same time in their life-cycle. I'll never credit SW for "saving us".

As far as the strike, voting to authorize your leadership to call a strike and actually going on strike and participating are two separate things. As you can see from our pilot group, there was only about a 13% chance that we'd actually have gone out on strike.

 

[boeing717]

] In truth, this is going to continue to play out for a while if Southwest Management doesn't throw us a bone; the Association has been very clear to explain that to management, which is why they're heading to Dallas on Wednesday, but the infighting between pilot groups on here isn't productive towards that end.

So if SWA throws a bone by giving all Air Tran pilots SWAPA pay now do you really think that will satisfy everybody? You won't be satisfied even after 2015. You will be complain about seniority and Captain seats until you retire. Like someone said, you voted and now you live by the vote. It is over.

 

[redflyer65]

PCL,

The "insulting deal" as you put it was negotiated by both parties I believe. You left that part out conveniently. Just to set the record straight.

 

[Dan Roman]

PCL,

The "insulting deal" as you put it was negotiated by both parties I believe. You left that part out conveniently. Just to set the record straight.

If you are going to set the record straight, make sure you include what they were told if they didn't accept the second offer.

 

[Ty Webb]

So if SWA throws a bone by giving all Air Tran pilots SWAPA pay now do you really think that will satisfy everybody? You won't be satisfied even after 2015. You will be complain about seniority and Captain seats until you retire. Like someone said, you voted and now you live by the vote. It is over.

You seem to be the one who can't give it up, CP.

Don't suck any green bananas. :laugh:

 

[scoreboardII]

Embrace the suck guys, it's the same on both sides.

 

[Clyde Frog]

PCL,

The "insulting deal" as you put it was negotiated by both parties I believe. You left that part out conveniently. Just to set the record straight.

AirTran pilots negotiated nothing. This was a "proposal" that came with ultimatums. We had absolutely no say in any of this. We were told to vote in favor or risk eventual unemployment. Not very conducive to fostering your "culture".

Now the record is set straight.

 

[Uppercrust]

Embrace the suck guys, it's the same on both sides.

You lose 40% seniority and your Capt seat and tell me how much more it sucks.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Blah,blah,blah.....

I'll say it again, this was GK's deal!!! SWAPA was along for the ride just like you were. Did we sit closer to the table? Sure we did, because we were part of the original gang but don't fool yourself into thinking that we had any control in what was going on.

What I would highly encourage each of you to do (AT peeps) is to press your union to plead for Swapa rates now!! The SLI is over and we have to share cockpits from this day fwd. Best of luck and try to keep your stress low. See ya on the line.

 

[SWA Bubba]

You lose 40% seniority and your Capt seat and tell me how much more it sucks.

Crusty,

You saying that you "lost 40% seniority," basing the difference between your standing on the Airtran list compared to the overall list is disingenuous. It assumes straight relative is the unequivocal definition of "fair," in that the 17-year Airtran pilot job was exactly equivalent to a 37-year Southwest pilot job. It's not that simple, and you know it. It's like SWA junior guys bitching that they lost seniority because you weren't all stapled "in return for your payraise." Basing your argument on a negotiating extreme (either one) that everyone knew wasn't going to happen may make YOU feel like you have a stronger argument, but in reality it does nothing for the people you're arguing with, except possibly driving them to using extreme argument bases.

You feel you got screwed. Got it. Really, I do. Newsflash: there's lots of SWA folks who also feel that they got screwed. You want to shout to the world that you got screwed worse? Knock yourself out. However, you're barking up the wrong tree. The SWA pilots didn't do this to you, anymore than you did it to them. Also, the SWA pilots aren't in a position to DO anything about the "screwing" that anyone is taking, any more than you are. You should probably address your concerns to management; you know, the only people who can change your position in life. Write GK a letter. Or not. But you might consider not wasting your venom on people who didn't do this to you. Do you bitch at your family too, for your self-annointed sorry lot in life? It would probably have the same effect.

Bubba

 

[redflyer65]

AirTran pilots negotiated nothing. This was a "proposal" that came with ultimatums. We had absolutely no say in any of this. We were told to vote in favor or risk eventual unemployment. Not very conducive to fostering your "culture".

Now the record is set straight.

Dan and Clyde,

Are you saying your negotiating committee didn't come up with the first agreement? (The guys that worked for you.)

Or is it just easier to jump up and down and blame everyone else? Starting with SWAPA, then GK, then SC, etc, etc.

 

[FIREMAN]

Dan and Clyde,

Are you saying your negotiating committee didn't come up with the first agreement? (The guys that worked for you.)

Or is it just easier to jump up and down and blame everyone else? Starting with SWAPA, then GK, then SC, etc, etc.

They did not come up with AP1 that was also GK doing.

 

[Quiet Flight]

So if SWA throws a bone by giving all Air Tran pilots SWAPA pay now...

This is not going to happen. Might want to start thinking about that NMB petition...

 

[redflyer65]

They did not come up with AP1 that was also GK doing.

How many months did they meet with the SWAPA NC? Your saying AP1 was ALL GK? You've got to be kidding.

 

[easydoesit]

How about we push for SWAPA representation now!!!

 

[stall022]

It was the AirTran MEC that turned down what SWAPA called SL9. It was SL9 that would have given all AirTran pilots SW pay as of April of this year. Additionally AirTran would have kept all would have kept all of their Capts seats for as long as the AirTran pilots wanted it. So don't blame everything on SWA and SWAPA, your MEC had a hand in this as well. SWAPA was trying to get what was best for the current SWAPA pilots (if they didn't they would have been subject to a DFR lawsuit) and GK kept them in the dark about the 717s as AirTran. SWAPA was just better at reading SWA management than ALPA.

Yeah because ALPA Isn’t allowed to get the best deal it can for it’s pilots, It has to roll over and take whatever SWAPA is gracious enough to give them, Even if that agreement involves stapling half a pilot group to the bottom of a seniority list.

Airtran pilots PAY ALPA to fight for their pilot group because(if they didn't they would have been subject to a DFR lawsuit), Unfortunately GK stepped in and didn’t let the process continue, Then he wasn’t man enough to inform BOTH groups of his future plan that would hugely affect one pilot group.

 

[redflyer65]

Yeah because ALPA Isn’t allowed to get the best deal it can for it’s pilots, It has to roll over and take whatever SWAPA is gracious enough to give them, Even if that agreement involves stapling half a pilot group to the bottom of a seniority list.

Airtran pilots PAY ALPA to fight for their pilot group because(if they didn't they would have been subject to a DFR lawsuit), Unfortunately GK stepped in and didn’t let the process continue, Then he wasn’t man enough to inform BOTH groups of his future plan that would hugely affect one pilot group.

Stall,

Seriously, what did you expect? Pure realitive with immediate SW pay? Was that realistic?

 

[stall022]

Stall,

Seriously, what did you expect? Pure realitive with immediate SW pay? Was that realistic?

Not at all, I think most Airtran pilots only expected a fair and Equitable agreement negotiated by two pilot groups.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

How about we push for SWAPA representation now!!!

I don't understand the rush to be represented by a group that doesn't want us. I'd prefer to remain with ALPA until a significant majority of FAT guys have transitioned. I believe SWAPA leadership feels this way as well. They won't have us until they are either forced to or it is inevitable.

BTW, petitioning the NMB does not guarantee or even necessarily expedite the process.

 

[GoodTimes]

The SS SLI has sailed, folks.

Man up and move on.