SWA wants to fly from HOU to MEX and SouthAmerica

[waveflyer]

Wave: In the post above, you completely took me out of context. You need to re-read the exchange I had with Humveedriver. His idea is that SWA (and only SWA, by virtue of size) should be the "counterbalance" to the hub and spoke mega carriers. And if that means SWA needs to be granted something that is contrary to market forces, politics, fairness, agreements, or whatever, SWA should be given whatever they need to be that counterbalance. If you are what you say you are, and you don't think the govt should pick winners and losers, then you need to agree with me-That is screwed up!!

Read it again. The second post from Humveedrivr needs to go between my two posts...

We aren't asking to be given anything except the required customs facilities and agents - at our expense. That's not a gift or a leg up- its a government responsibility. you've painted this as something it's not.

Monopolies are nice for you I guess-

 

[madjack]

"From my recollection, the wheels usually come off the bus about 10 years after the pilot arrogance peaks."

I think you have an overinflated opinion of the power of "pilot arrogance" when it comes to affecting the success of an airline...It is the height of (pilot) arrogance to believe that your opinion (and for that matter any opinion on this forum) is worth more than a fart in the wind...

 

[outerlimits]

Continental lost it's way 1983. Now they are going to pull down the real united with them.

I guess that is why the Real UAL pilots view them as second rate ....

 

[dicko]

"From my recollection, the wheels usually come off the bus about 10 years after the pilot arrogance peaks."

I think you have an overinflated opinion of the power of "pilot arrogance" when it comes to affecting the success of an airline...It is the height of (pilot) arrogance to believe that your opinion (and for that matter any opinion on this forum) is worth more than a fart in the wind...

I think you're correct, but there does seem to be a correlation between hubris and an airline falling from grace. The list is long.

 

[Continental]

Continental lost it's way 1983. Now they are going to pull down the real united with them.

No it's just like mixing 2 piles of dog turds and expecting unicorns to magically appear. It just won't work. All you will get is a big bag of dog turds. Which sucks because unicorns are awesome.

 

[Flopgut]

CAL's business decisions should not hogtie swa -

But your business plan can hogtie CAL [UAL]? Or any other airline for that matter, and it's ok?

That's been bothering me....

 

[waveflyer]

But your business plan can hogtie CAL [UAL]? Or any other airline for that matter, and it's ok?

That's been bothering me....

Here's the difference....again...

Swa isn't asking any government agency to prevent CAL from doing anything. Sounds like your major beef is with capitalism and competition- not SWA

 

[redflyer65]

But your business plan can hogtie CAL [UAL]? .

WHAT? Hogtie you how? You guys can fly wherever and whenever you want.

 

[Flopgut]

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/ktrk/SWA-UACorrespondence.pdf

Link above: SWA's Bob Montgomery states; "As part of this evaluation, we welcome the opportunity to discuss funding alternatives with the goal in mind to maintain the low cost structure we have both worked so hard to maintain at Hobby"

What exactly does that mean? If SWA is paying for it, what's a "funding alternative"? The city has also worked hard to keep the costs at Hobby low!?What's that mean? Kinda makes me wonder where the $110k for the study ended up even more. Did they work that hard to help CAL? Or did they just want a huge airport built/paid for by someone else? These five gates need to be bid out. If nothing else, run the price up on SWA. Wouldn't that be more like a free market? Have an auction. Let bidders decide what it's worth. Don't just hand it to SWA for pennies, because they asked real nice...

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

Flop, that's very interesting coming from a guy that works for an airline that has taken Government handouts in the past, and was in bankruptcy for three years. So you really have no credibility on this subject at all.

 

[Flopgut]

WHAT? Hogtie you how? You guys can fly wherever and whenever you want.

Uh, no we can't. If we wanted a terminal at Hobby, we would face the same obstacles you do. Actually more! The city would want something even more lavish and even more financially favorable to them! That's if they might consider giving us a "yes"... With 12 gates open at IAH? The answer would be no for United going to Hobby. The answer would be "no" for anybody, except SWA...

 

[Flopgut]

Flop, that's very interesting coming from a guy that works for an airline that has taken Government handouts in the past, and was in bankruptcy for three years. So you really have no credibility on this subject at all.

What govt handouts did we get? If you're talking about L-UAL, they applied for two ATSB loans and they were both turned down.

 

[waveflyer]

Uh, no we can't. If we wanted a terminal at Hobby, we would face the same obstacles you do. Actually more! The city would want something even more lavish and even more financially favorable to them! That's if they might consider giving us a "yes"... With 12 gates open at IAH? The answer would be no for United going to Hobby. The answer would be "no" for anybody, except SWA...

How do you know, and why would you say that?
You clearly don't know your own airline's history. CAL is not Houston's hometown airline-! You've only been there since the 80's when Lorenzo forced them to Houston from LA- Bethune did work well with Houston, but they received and received from the city of Houston in order to stay in Houston- and without a thought moved again to chicago- the 5th corporate headquarters in CALs history.

To further Tweets comments above - here's CAL:

1937 moved headquarters to Denver from ELP
1962 moved headquarters to Los Angeles
"During the late 1950s and early 1960s CAL CEO, Robert Six was the airline industry's leading lower-fare advocate. He correctly predicted that increased traffic, not higher fares, was the answer to the airline industry's problems. Six stunned the industry when he introduced the economy fare on the Chicago-Los Angeles route in 1962. He later pioneered a number of other low or discount fares which brought air travel to many who otherwise could not have afforded it. One of Continental's early innovations was a system-wide economy excursion fare which cut the standard coach fares by more than 25%."

"In Denver, Continental's very rapid growth provided the final impetus for the construction of the new Denver International Airport, which would be completed almost fifteen years later"Which CAL then bailed on in favor of Houston

1982 moved headquarters to Houston
1983 Bankruptcy
2010 moved headquarters to chicago http://www.chron.com/opinion/editorials/article/Dear-Mr-Smisek-Don-t-move-Continental-s-1623043.php

"Pilots went on strike in 1983, but were unsuccessful due to Continental pilots and new hires who crossed the picket line"
1990 Bankruptcy
Houston Airport System gives CAL $333Milkion towards construction of new terminal
HAS, gives continental land at IAH to build maintenance facility, allowing CAL to reneg on its commitments to DIA and leave its decades long maintenance facility for Houston-
HOUSTON, June 28 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Continental Airlines
(NYSE: CAL) today issued the following statement in response to the Air
Transportation Stabilization Board's decision regarding the United Airlines
application for a federal loan guarantee:
"United Airlines is a great franchise with exceptional employees. The
more than 70,000 hard-working men and women of United have made tremendous
sacrifices in recent years, as have tens of thousands of employees at
Continental Airlines and the rest of the industry. In addition, United's
efforts to reduce costs and generate additional revenue have made the airline
a stronger competitor.
"The wide support among political leaders and others for United's loan
guarantee application showed a great commitment to the airline's employees.
However, given United's success in reshaping itself, the ATSB and its members
made the appropriate decision after their careful and thorough assessment of
United's needs and the industry's position. They should be applauded for that
decision.
"The challenges facing the U.S. airline industry are many, but the most
appropriate course of action is to allow the marketplace to determine the
shape of the industry.
"Continental Airlines is confident that private investment and further
structural change -- rather than government intervention -- can position
United Airlines for success in this difficult environment."



SOURCE Continental Airlines

Good luck making your case-
Like 3 other cities before it, Houston was just a 20 year resting place for CAL, who always goes with the highest bidder-

But Houston, is SWA's busiest hub, and one of the original triangle cities, for an actual Texas airline- Houston city council would be disloyal to not approve this, and Houstonians would be stupid to not support it considering who they just merged with. But make no mistake- CAL has never been loyal to any one city. For the Chronicle to call CAL Houston's hometown airline is a croc, much less the new United.
First to worst CAL- get used to it.

 

[Flopgut]

Wave: That was a rambling post in which you didn't really address anything. (you are brilliant at taking things out of context) I want to know what you think Bob Montgomery meant with "funding alternatives"? Why is he praising Diaz for helping keep the airport inexpensive?

Btw: It's great how you guys pick whatever airline from the 5 mergers that have created UAL that best suits your argument?! Why don't you give your wava-pedia bio on Texas International? Actually, skip it. Let's stick to this issue at hand.

Here is what Houstonians understand about SWA: They are a triangle city that has had less than half the appreciation Chicago has recieved. NO ONE in town believes your $130 fare to Bogota, or the 10,000 jobs claim. This is only happening now because the city feels they have lost CAL. But most in the city understand the result of SWA getting their way really won't help anybody but SWA. Houston needs to continue to add long flights to thin markets all over the world. (China, New Zealand, Australia) It's certainly a lot to give up for 5 gates at Hobby.

 

[humveedriver]

Generally speaking. People like choices and options. Which is the ultimate reason to start Int'l service from Hobby. Unless you think the SWA secret police will force the citizens of Houston to fly out of Hobby.