SWA wants to fly from HOU to MEX and SouthAmerica

[Flopgut]

Yike... To a United FO, 2 or 3 hundred dollars IS your boat budget... A nice canoe. Maybe even get an oar...

 

[Bake]

I was going to use the 30 grand to buy a boat einstein

 

[kwick]

I'm sorry Scoot, where exactly are we crying? When you guys wanted to do your slot swap, it was the Feds that said you had to divest X number of slots to avoid monopoly. You agreed to it. The problem was, Southwest (and other airlines, for that matter) were interested in the divested slots (which would then belong to the airports/FAA, by the way), but you wanted to cherry pick who got them instead. You wanted to limit your competition by actually choosing your own competitor; someone you felt would post the least actual competition to you. As I recall, it was YOU doing the crying to the FAA: "well, if we can't choose our own competitor, then we may not want to do this swap after all. So there."

I just don't get your complaint here at HOU. You fly (as a rule) into bigger airports that serve your model (hub and spoke, larger capacity aircraft). We fly (often) into middle sized airports, like MDW and HOU, because they fit OUR model. Your regional airlines fly into tiny airports (some of which I'm not even sure where they are), because that's THEIR model, with their smaller RJs. We don't fly into those places, because they're too small to justify our 737s, for the same reason you don't bring your 777s and such to places like ABQ, OKC and CRP (or MDW and HOU, for that matter). The airport size or market size doesn't justify it. You've got multiple sized airframes to serve different sized airports and markets (plus your regional RJs for really tiny airports/markets), but we don't. All of our aircraft are essentially the same size, so we stick with airports (and markets) that we can make work best for us. That's how a business plan works. Trying to force us to make our operation fit into your business plan is not fair or level at all. It's crap, and clearly Southwest isn't buying into it.

Fair and level means YOU fly any size aircraft you want into any airport you want (and can make money doing so), and we'll do the same. We just don't have the choice of aircraft sizes that you do. How about this: you fly your 777s from IAH to Europe, we'll fly our 737s from HOU to closer places like DAL or maybe even CUN, and you can have your regional guys fly their RJs from Baton Rouge to wherever-the-hell you fly to from Baton Rouge. (Actually, I don't really know what smaller markets your RJs serve; Baton Rouge was just the first small city with an airport that came to mind. But I think you get my point.)

Or you can just keep bitching. It probably won't help. Lawyers and Executives posture and orate extremes to get their way, but when it's all said and done, and it turns out that most of their grandstanding was just crap, and then we pilots just fly the planes to where they're told.

Bubba[/QUOT

You proved his point!

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

 

[waveflyer]

And what point was that kwick? United wants to create restrictions where there are none for no other reason than it would be easier for them not to compete with us....
I think everyone sees the multi-layer point to UAL's objection-
They have a hard enough time surviving when they have no competition and don't want any more than they have to-
When they come forcing more cuts down employees throats (while giving themselves the savings in bonuses) they'll blame swa and more employees will believe that swa is the villain instead of their own inept, greedy mgmt.
That about right?

 

[outerlimits]

Kwick!

I am missing something? I thought you are now a Southwest pilot? I am confused about you feel about SWA.

 

[Flopgut]

And what point was that kwick? United wants to create restrictions where there are none for no other reason than it would be easier for them not to compete with us....
I think everyone sees the multi-layer point to UAL's objection-
They have a hard enough time surviving when they have no competition and don't want any more than they have to-
When they come forcing more cuts down employees throats (while giving themselves the savings in bonuses) they'll blame swa and more employees will believe that swa is the villain instead of their own inept, greedy mgmt.
That about right?

Wave: Continental built/spent at IAH to get what we needed to do the flying we wanted to do. The deal the city told us they wanted to see was that every airline get to use it, and we thought we were entitled to certain assurances as well. That good faith agreement provided Houston with a world class airport. Now when we're set to get a return on our investment, SWA wants to step in and take the profit right off the top with a miniscule investment thru an airport stunt. BTW: When I said "hot dog stand" to Bake, I was implying that our profit is going to be so little, we might as well be running a hot dog stand. (he thought I meant we'd fold up. No, but our profit will sqwawk VFR) I wasn't interested in betting that we would be gone entirely, I wanted to bet what would happen first: UAL displace 1300 jobs, or SWA create 10,000 jobs? No second guessing those terms...

This building permit is not a lock just because you're going to spend your own money (mostly, some accounts say the HAS will spend $25 million). The city is going to have a black eye if they grant you this. Example: What do you think the next large corporation is going to be thinking when they are set to enter an agreement with Houston for a +1 billion dollar investment? Answer: They won't invest in Houston! It's hard enough for Houston to attract business and investments as it is. They can't treat hometown corporations like that. (No one thinks much of SWA's claims to Houston. You've treated it like a red headed step child. Hobby is a dump. SWA is only interested in it now to exploit it some more) And the IAH airport? Well, we just broke ground on the 700 million dollar terminal B project. If we don't shutter that, it will be the last thing that Houston won't be paying for themselves IMHO...

As far as fares? You do not have us beat. You can only (and very marginally at that) lower a few fares and that's only through going to Hobby. Most everybody in Houston understands that that is a function of the airport and not something purely to SWA's credit. Any airline that gets a deal at Hobby could do the same thing. People are not completely stupid in Houston. Have you noticed in the media and the blogs that you really lack overwhelming support for this? And yeah, our mgt sucks, but this is really an attack by GK and SWA directly on the Houston United employees. If our company builds something, we ought to be able to use it under the terms it was built for reasonable duration. You would want the same for your company.

 

[scoreboardII]

Lets see, UAL CASM 2011 12.97.

LUV CASM 2011 12.41

Not to worried SWA can't sell tickets for less than UAL and still make bank.

 

[waveflyer]

Flop, so this is about CAL learning what I learned at 20years old? Get it in writing?
Show me the contract/agreement that CAL has with Houston to only fly international out of IAH.
You can't bc it doesn't exist-
The city has a vote bc we need new governmental facilities, and it is going to hear UAL's complaint. It really does sound like you are complaining about capitalism though- again- CAL needed the longer runways and space to hub and spoke- not swa- we shouldn't be bound by your business plan.

As for the blogs:

"Blogging: Never Before Have So Many People With So Little To Say Said So Much To So Few"

A "demotivational" poster from despair.com/blogging.html

Never confuse the Internet with reality- its rarely...very rarely, a representative sample. In this case it's clear that blog has been hijacked by CAL employees at the urging of your mgmt. Houston is one of the original SWA triangle cities- we are a Texas airline, and the people of Houston are smart, do know the history of swa vs legacies, and will definitely choose us more and more as we give them more options- they choose us a lot now, and we provide a relative few options compares to unical-

 

[humveedriver]

Flop; That post actually made a little sense. I don't think a company asking the city of Houston for permission to expand their services is an attack. It's business. It's up to the officials of the city of Houston to decide what they want. SWA just asked the question. I can't see how your beef would be with them. It's the city government bearing the responsibility of determining what is best for the city, the residents and the health of the local economy. You may be right on every point that this is a bad idea, but ultimately I think SWA has an obligation to its passengers, shareholders and employees to offer the most competitive product they can. That won't be at IAH. If the city says no, SAT and AUS will pick up the traffic. And the city knows this. It's not black and white.

 

[SWA Bubba]

You proved his point!

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Really? How's that? He said that SWA whines to get its way. I said that we're doing what we want, according to our business model, and HE was whining that we should stop. You don't seem too perceptive on what's going on in this whole Houston kerfuffle.

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

That good faith agreement

Show it to us.

 

[Flopgut]

Flop, so this is about CAL learning what I learned at 20years old? Get it in writing?
Show me the contract/agreement that CAL has with Houston to only fly international out of IAH.
You can't bc it doesn't exist-
The city has a vote bc we need new governmental facilities, and it is going to hear UAL's complaint. It really does sound like you are complaining about capitalism though- again- CAL needed the longer runways and space to hub and spoke- not swa- we shouldn't be bound by your business plan.

As for the blogs:

"Blogging: Never Before Have So Many People With So Little To Say Said So Much To So Few"

A "demotivational" poster from despair.com/blogging.html

Never confuse the Internet with reality- its rarely...very rarely, a representative sample. In this case it's clear that blog has been hijacked by CAL employees at the urging of your mgmt. Houston is one of the original SWA triangle cities- we are a Texas airline, and the people of Houston are smart, do know the history of swa vs legacies, and will definitely choose us more and more as we give them more options- they choose us a lot now, and we provide a relative few options compares to unical-

Here is the written agreement: Name of the airports! One is international, the other is not. The absence of a customs and immigration facility ought to be good enough for you. What happens when someday Hobby isn't personal and cheap enough for SWA and you move to Galveston? Do we eventually need to have customs and immigration at every airport in South Texas so you can continue to elude competition?

You deal with a city, you're dealing with a moving target. I'm not sure there was any other sort of assurance CAL could have gotten than there be a need for someone like SWA to have to go through the building permit process. And it may be all we need?

I see something different going on with your business. I think it bodes well for us long term that SWA had to go to Hobby to try to fly international. I'd be more afraid if you went toe to toe with us at IAH. You're starting to weaken. Additionally, I think you are setting yourself up for some serious backlash (obviously, the city of Houston isn't above backlash. They are hammering UAL for moving CAL hdqtrs) When you fall short on the 10,000 jobs assurance (pbly WAY short), get ready to hear about it! Every Houstonian connected to CAL (and there are a lot of them) understand that GK is only pushing this now to exploit the CAL/UAL merger. There will be resentment over that. Another thing you might not be aware of, a lot of Texans would like to have seen high speed rail all those years ago and they are aware SWA was part of that being torpedoed. You went after it vehemently, just like you go after cities like Dallas and Houston on their agreements with other airlines and you call it a business model. I think it will backfire. This deal with Hobby, might be the tipping point.

 

[PCL_128]

Here is the written agreement: Name of the airports! One is international, the other is not.

If that's all you've got, then prepare for SWA international flights out of HOU. You've already lost if that's your only "agreement."

 

[waveflyer]

It does say Intercontinental - you're right flop-
Is this the official announcement that CAL-UAL will now be ceasing all North American flights to and from the "INTERCONTINENTAL AIRPORT HOUSTON"? - after all IAH to CUN is INTRAcontinental and ought to be done out of Hobby

 

[Flopgut]

If that's all you've got, then prepare for SWA international flights out of HOU. You've already lost if that's your only "agreement."

It does say Intercontinental - you're right flop-
Is this the official announcement that CAL-UAL will now be ceasing all North American flights to and from the "INTERCONTINENTAL AIRPORT HOUSTON"? - after all IAH to CUN is INTRAcontinental and ought to be done out of Hobby

Hey look guys, I'm not 100% sure what it is. Obviously there is something to it. Or you would just build it. Sorry. I know you want it handed to you.

 

[PCL_128]

Hey look guys, I'm not 100% sure what it is. Obviously there is something to it.

Nah, I don't think there is. I think UAL just wants to whine and cry to try to get their way because they can't compete on a level playing field. They're making up this rhetoric to get the employees (and maybe the local public) behind them, but they have no facts to back them up when it comes right down to it. There is no agreement.

I know you want it handed to you.

Nope. If there actually was an agreement, I would support you on this one. People should stick to their agreements. But there isn't one, so the free market should rule the day.

 

[Flopgut]

Nah, I don't think there is. I think UAL just wants to whine and cry to try to get their way because they can't compete on a level playing field.

Nope. If there actually was an agreement, I would support you on this one. People should stick to their agreements. But there isn't one, so the free market should rule the day.

You know, there is no bond restriction because CAL/UAL has done such a remarkable job of funding this airport. IAH is extremely well run. Hobby is going to function like a parasite to IAH. Most Houstonians realize this.

The poll is currently 67% in favor of NOT allowing SWA to build the terminal. I bet Loren Steffy (Chronicle business writer who hates UAL) regrets putting that up!

Again, chance we stop you? 1 in 3. Chance we go to Hobby to match you? maybe 1 in 10. But I sure hope we do. Personally, if Jeff wanted a real cheap side letter outta me because he wanted to put you down like AA did Legend at Love, I would sign it in a heartbeat...
http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/morning_call/2012/04/southwest-praises-united-criticizes.html
Here is another article that very plainly reads that UAL is not trying to stop Southwest. Our position is the flights need to be done from IAH.

 

[outerlimits]

Personally, if Jeff wanted a real cheap side letter outta me because he wanted to put you down like AA did Legend at Love, I would sign it in a heartbeat...

I like the way you think, the more we hire the better for me. If we are lucky we might get UAL to give us over 1000 aircraft of RJs



PS I like how you compare Southwest to Legend and the new BK UAL to the old powerhouse AA. I bet you think you could play MLB if you wanted to ,but rather fly for UAL.



PSS I can't believe what I am reading, that a UAL pilot is willing to take a pay cut on there next contract. I think Jeff will be more than willing to give you your wish.

 

[Flopgut]

Sorry, no scope side letter....

 

[Flopgut]

PSS I can't believe what I am reading, that a UAL pilot is willing to take a pay cut on there next contract.

You're not reading it right. I'm thinking 10 or so 757s in a Hobby sub-base.

AA at Love taking out Legend is a perfect example. Get the dirty work done, then go back to normal...