SWA wants to fly from HOU to MEX and SouthAmerica

[dicko]

It would be fascinating to view the Houston Council members FF accounts and travel details ..... I wonder if any of them were treated to Premier 1K or Global Services ?

 

[Flopgut]

If we go down your path flop. It's regulation without federal government oversight. It's the largest carriers regulating their own airlines as they see fit with municipal approval.

It's no different going down your path.

You're asking the city for something, we're asking the city for the equal opposite. We might both be equally right or wrong. However, there are 12 gates open at IAH right now. So the link you gave me that said there is no access at fortress hubs for disscounters? Is wrong.

 

[Flopgut]

It would be fascinating to view the Houston Council members FF accounts and travel details ..... I wonder if any of them were treated to Premier 1K or Global Services ?

I'd like to know who got the $110,000 for the "study"?

 

[Flopgut]

Flop,

You did read the article that SWAGuy posted right? You know the one that runs down how Houston has bent over backwards to help CAL with anything they needed (anytime it was needed), only to move to Chicago in the end.

Read post 334. I have to agree it was a huge mistake. There would be no chance of SWA getting this if we had stayed in Houston. We have a terrible CEO... Yay for you!

 

[Double Shot]

Not to mention a dysfunctional pilot group as well.

 

[humveedriver]

It's no different going down your path.

You're asking the city for something, we're asking the city for the equal opposite. We might both be equally right or wrong. However, there are 12 gates open at IAH right now. So the link you gave me that said there is no access at fortress hubs for disscounters? Is wrong.

The gates are available in IAH and DFW for that matter. It's the pricing that is unfair. Essentially the United's of the world want the competition to lose money competing with them on like routes (the legacies intentiolly slash fares and operate at a loss. Once the competition is gone. Fares go up. Everyone here knows this trend). Knowing they can afford to do this due to their extensive networks. The article is from 1999. The points about monopolies and hubs still hold their water. But things have changed since then too. Continental and Northwest were blocked from merging. But since oil and the economy have been in the tank, things have changed. The DOJ is accepting of a consolidated industry with fewer mega carriers. They don't address address the impact on smaller carriers. I believe SWA, which carries the most passengers domestically, is the counter balance to the new age of mega carrier. As such, I think they should be allowed to offer international service out of Hobby.

 

[madjack]

If SWA wins the HOU int'l passenger wins (lower fares)...if UCAL wins??

 

[Flopgut]

The gates are available in IAH and DFW for that matter. It's the pricing that is unfair. Essentially the United's of the world want the competition to lose money competing with them on like routes (the legacies intentiolly slash fares and operate at a loss. Once the competition is gone. Fares go up. Everyone here knows this trend). Knowing they can afford to do this due to their extensive networks. The article is from 1999. The points about monopolies and hubs still hold their water. But things have changed since then too. Continental and Northwest were blocked from merging. But since oil and the economy have been in the tank, things have changed. The DOJ is accepting of a consolidated industry with fewer mega carriers. They don't address address the impact on smaller carriers. I believe SWA, which carries the most passengers domestically, is the counter balance to the new age of mega carrier. As such, I think they should be allowed to offer international service out of Hobby.

Ok, very good post, point well taken. But I vehemently disagree that Southwest be the only carrier that is the "counterbalance" to the mega carriers. Where is the balance in enabling one airline to be profitable and to grow year after year? Where is the balance in letting that profitable carrier take their pick of the very best routes from a terminal that is probably going to be built with taxpayer money? (as the Fortune or Forbes article describes. I do NOT beleive SWA will pay up) When mega carriers have to pay 10 times to a city, mostly their own money?

If having Hobby open to international flights is the balancing act that is required? Then I'd say ok, but don't give it to SWA. Not this time; not twice in a row. Have a lottery, an auction, or something like that. It's worth a lot more than 100 million to somebody else.

And btw: Does any of this thesis of yours resemble the free market? Is it not any worse than regulation was? I know you think it's great because you see dollar signs, and you've done a good job of making your point (and it actually looks like what is happening) but what about the employees of these mega carriers? We're not going to just languish in insolvency. You know eventually we're coming with our pitchforks. Maybe sooner than you think?

 

[scoreboardII]

Flop, your "gentleman's agreement" went out the door when mother UAL shutdown the offices of CAL in HOU.

 

[scoreboardII]

We're not going to just languish in insolvency. You know eventually we're coming with our pitchforks. Maybe sooner than you think?

SWA employee's have proven their metal enough times to take one for the team when needed. Bring it Flop, bring it. Last time I saw a UASL/CAL pilot take one was in a strike line. OH, wait, you guys just sent the letter to be released so you could strike.

 

[Flopgut]

If SWA wins the HOU int'l passenger wins (lower fares)...if UCAL wins??

They will not feel like they've won when you fail to create 10,000 jobs, and you only lower fares by the smallish amount of money you save them not paying IAH fees. A lot of Houstonians understand this. That's why the low fares argument is not a slam dunk. Your study said you would fly to Bogota for $133?! Most people know better!

 

[Flopgut]

SWA employee's have proven their metal enough times to take one for the team when needed. Bring it Flop.

You guys have proven nothing. You have not been tested and you are weak.

You said what about us wanting to strike? I didn't understand you. You want to be at Hobby so you don't have to honor our picket line? Yeah, I'm sure in that May 8th meeting GK will make sure that comes up. He can say to the council his lap dog pilots will never strike.

 

[scoreboardII]

That right there is the hypocrisy of ignorance.

 

[waveflyer]

Ok, very good post, point well taken. But I vehemently disagree that Southwest be the only carrier that is the "counterbalance" to the mega carriers. Where is the balance in enabling one airline to be profitable and to grow year after year? Where is the balance in letting that profitable carrier take their pick of the very best routes from a terminal that is probably going to be built with taxpayer money? (as the Fortune or Forbes article describes. I do NOT beleive SWA will pay up) When mega carriers have to pay 10 times to a city, mostly their own money?

If having Hobby open to international flights is the balancing act that is required? Then I'd say ok, but don't give it to SWA. Not this time; not twice in a row. Have a lottery, an auction, or something like that. It's worth a lot more than 100 million to somebody else.Is it?

And btw: Does any of this thesis of yours resemble the free market? Is it not any worse than regulation was? I know you think it's great because you see dollar signs, and you've done a good job of making your point (and it actually looks like what is happening) but what about the employees of these mega carriers? We're not going to just languish in insolvency. You know eventually we're coming with our pitchforks. Maybe sooner than you think?

what does that mean? Knock yourself out bro

I highlighted the parts I take exception to.
That's right, one of the most liberal, Obama supporters on FI is calling you out for being socialist and anti-capitalist.
Government has a role. Strategic decisions of private corporations? - absolutely not.

I've yet to see the Forbes article- the Fortune one was posted, and it was an opinion piece. In that where the author accuses SWA of brazenly asking the city for $100M (which is false), he cites how the city put up $333 million towards your shiny terminals in IAH.
How do you take city money over and over, then claim its unfair if the city simply "allows" us to operate out of hobby.

CAL's business decisions should not hogtie swa -

You are thick though-

 

[waveflyer]

You guys have proven nothing. You have not been tested and you are weak.

You said what about us wanting to strike? I didn't understand you. You want to be at Hobby so you don't have to honor our picket line? Yeah, I'm sure in that May 8th meeting GK will make sure that comes up. He can say to the council his lap dog pilots will never strike.

Wow. I didn't realize we were weak and untested. What about the rest of my swa brethren? Did you guys know this?

The lapdogs get paid a whole lot more, in a lot better working environment, so at least we have that. You keep "fighting" though Flop