SWA wants to fly from HOU to MEX and SouthAmerica

[PCL_128]

That good faith agreement

Show it to us.

 

[Flopgut]

Flop, so this is about CAL learning what I learned at 20years old? Get it in writing?
Show me the contract/agreement that CAL has with Houston to only fly international out of IAH.
You can't bc it doesn't exist-
The city has a vote bc we need new governmental facilities, and it is going to hear UAL's complaint. It really does sound like you are complaining about capitalism though- again- CAL needed the longer runways and space to hub and spoke- not swa- we shouldn't be bound by your business plan.

As for the blogs:

"Blogging: Never Before Have So Many People With So Little To Say Said So Much To So Few"

A "demotivational" poster from despair.com/blogging.html

Never confuse the Internet with reality- its rarely...very rarely, a representative sample. In this case it's clear that blog has been hijacked by CAL employees at the urging of your mgmt. Houston is one of the original SWA triangle cities- we are a Texas airline, and the people of Houston are smart, do know the history of swa vs legacies, and will definitely choose us more and more as we give them more options- they choose us a lot now, and we provide a relative few options compares to unical-

Here is the written agreement: Name of the airports! One is international, the other is not. The absence of a customs and immigration facility ought to be good enough for you. What happens when someday Hobby isn't personal and cheap enough for SWA and you move to Galveston? Do we eventually need to have customs and immigration at every airport in South Texas so you can continue to elude competition?

You deal with a city, you're dealing with a moving target. I'm not sure there was any other sort of assurance CAL could have gotten than there be a need for someone like SWA to have to go through the building permit process. And it may be all we need?

I see something different going on with your business. I think it bodes well for us long term that SWA had to go to Hobby to try to fly international. I'd be more afraid if you went toe to toe with us at IAH. You're starting to weaken. Additionally, I think you are setting yourself up for some serious backlash (obviously, the city of Houston isn't above backlash. They are hammering UAL for moving CAL hdqtrs) When you fall short on the 10,000 jobs assurance (pbly WAY short), get ready to hear about it! Every Houstonian connected to CAL (and there are a lot of them) understand that GK is only pushing this now to exploit the CAL/UAL merger. There will be resentment over that. Another thing you might not be aware of, a lot of Texans would like to have seen high speed rail all those years ago and they are aware SWA was part of that being torpedoed. You went after it vehemently, just like you go after cities like Dallas and Houston on their agreements with other airlines and you call it a business model. I think it will backfire. This deal with Hobby, might be the tipping point.

 

[PCL_128]

Here is the written agreement: Name of the airports! One is international, the other is not.

If that's all you've got, then prepare for SWA international flights out of HOU. You've already lost if that's your only "agreement."

 

[waveflyer]

It does say Intercontinental - you're right flop-
Is this the official announcement that CAL-UAL will now be ceasing all North American flights to and from the "INTERCONTINENTAL AIRPORT HOUSTON"? - after all IAH to CUN is INTRAcontinental and ought to be done out of Hobby

 

[Flopgut]

If that's all you've got, then prepare for SWA international flights out of HOU. You've already lost if that's your only "agreement."

It does say Intercontinental - you're right flop-
Is this the official announcement that CAL-UAL will now be ceasing all North American flights to and from the "INTERCONTINENTAL AIRPORT HOUSTON"? - after all IAH to CUN is INTRAcontinental and ought to be done out of Hobby

Hey look guys, I'm not 100% sure what it is. Obviously there is something to it. Or you would just build it. Sorry. I know you want it handed to you.

 

[PCL_128]

Hey look guys, I'm not 100% sure what it is. Obviously there is something to it.

Nah, I don't think there is. I think UAL just wants to whine and cry to try to get their way because they can't compete on a level playing field. They're making up this rhetoric to get the employees (and maybe the local public) behind them, but they have no facts to back them up when it comes right down to it. There is no agreement.

I know you want it handed to you.

Nope. If there actually was an agreement, I would support you on this one. People should stick to their agreements. But there isn't one, so the free market should rule the day.

 

[Flopgut]

Nah, I don't think there is. I think UAL just wants to whine and cry to try to get their way because they can't compete on a level playing field.

Nope. If there actually was an agreement, I would support you on this one. People should stick to their agreements. But there isn't one, so the free market should rule the day.

You know, there is no bond restriction because CAL/UAL has done such a remarkable job of funding this airport. IAH is extremely well run. Hobby is going to function like a parasite to IAH. Most Houstonians realize this.

The poll is currently 67% in favor of NOT allowing SWA to build the terminal. I bet Loren Steffy (Chronicle business writer who hates UAL) regrets putting that up!

Again, chance we stop you? 1 in 3. Chance we go to Hobby to match you? maybe 1 in 10. But I sure hope we do. Personally, if Jeff wanted a real cheap side letter outta me because he wanted to put you down like AA did Legend at Love, I would sign it in a heartbeat...
http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/morning_call/2012/04/southwest-praises-united-criticizes.html
Here is another article that very plainly reads that UAL is not trying to stop Southwest. Our position is the flights need to be done from IAH.

 

[outerlimits]

Personally, if Jeff wanted a real cheap side letter outta me because he wanted to put you down like AA did Legend at Love, I would sign it in a heartbeat...

I like the way you think, the more we hire the better for me. If we are lucky we might get UAL to give us over 1000 aircraft of RJs



PS I like how you compare Southwest to Legend and the new BK UAL to the old powerhouse AA. I bet you think you could play MLB if you wanted to ,but rather fly for UAL.



PSS I can't believe what I am reading, that a UAL pilot is willing to take a pay cut on there next contract. I think Jeff will be more than willing to give you your wish.

 

[Flopgut]

Sorry, no scope side letter....

 

[Flopgut]

PSS I can't believe what I am reading, that a UAL pilot is willing to take a pay cut on there next contract.

You're not reading it right. I'm thinking 10 or so 757s in a Hobby sub-base.

AA at Love taking out Legend is a perfect example. Get the dirty work done, then go back to normal...

 

[PCL_128]

he wanted to put you down like AA did Legend at Love

Oh, that's cute. You think we're as vulnerable as Legend. You're in for a rude awakening, Flop.

Here is another article that very plainly reads that UAL is not trying to stop Southwest. Our position is the flights need to be done from IAH.

Which is effectively the same thing. Nice try, though.

 

[scoreboardII]

Personally, if Jeff wanted a real cheap side letter outta me because he wanted to put you down like AA did Legend at Love, I would sign it in a heartbeat... QUOTE]

And this goes to show you how bankrupt your morals are, you are fully willing to break federal antitrust law and collude to drive out a competitor.

Just by making that statement you are breaking the law, go look:

http://www.antitrustinstitute.org/files/112.pdf

This whole UAL "we only want to compete out of IAH" is antitrust fodder.

 

[ofacegangsta]

CAL could start flying international outta Ellington.

 

[texman]

Here is a good read for everyone! Even Flop.

http://www.centreforaviation.com/an...ing-international-flights-in-12-markets-71625

 

[Flopgut]

And this goes to show you how bankrupt your morals are, you are fully willing to break federal antitrust law and collude to drive out a competitor.

Just by making that statement you are breaking the law, go look:

http://www.antitrustinstitute.org/files/112.pdf

This whole UAL "we only want to compete out of IAH" is antitrust fodder.

Look who's a lawyer?

I don't know if you'd go out of business or not? Pretty sure not. But I think you guys have gotten soft and fat and you don't want it as bad as I do. I simply want to compete. I want to defend my job and my company. I want what most of us want, competition on a level playing field. All of us at IAH, OR all of us at Hobby. I don't care.

Why was it ok for your airline to fly against the whole industry with lower pay and no pension for 25 years? But if I don't object to it, and AA does it, it's wrong? Worked pretty good for you in the end....

 

[outerlimits]

Look who's a lawyer?

I don't know if you'd go out of business or not? Pretty sure not. But I think you guys have gotten soft and fat and you don't want it as bad as I do. I simply want to compete. I want to defend my job and my company. I want what most of us want, competition on a level playing field. All of us at IAH, OR all of us at Hobby. I don't care.

Why was it ok for your airline to fly against the whole industry with lower pay and no pension for 25 years? But if I don't object to it, and AA does it, it's wrong? Worked pretty good for you in the end....

WOW WOW and WOW


If all should be at IAH or HOU, should not the whole industry follow ?

All flying must be flown out of LAX, JFK. MIA ,ORD just to name a few. No more several airports in any city.



PS As far as no pension, I heard they get profit sharing and 401k which is there money no mater what happens to the airline. I head some of there pilots retiring with almost 4M, to me that seems better that CAL or UAL pension


How much money are the UAL and CAL pilots retiring with in there pension?

 

[redflyer65]

Here is a good read for everyone! Even Flop.

http://www.centreforaviation.com/an...ing-international-flights-in-12-markets-71625

Very interesting read Tex.

It looks like a projected 20% drop in market share for UCAL and they are debating that there prices are already competitive now and that there would be no 'Southwest Effect' on the pricing. Ahhh, yea right.

 

[Flopgut]

Very interesting read Tex.

It looks like a projected 20% drop in market share for UCAL and they are debating that there prices are already competitive now and that there would be no 'Southwest Effect' on the pricing. Ahhh, yea right.

I think the UAL thesis that your "SWA effect" has diminished is about right. At the numbers you're talking about, you will lose 76m per year on the projected service. That's the UAL number and I think it's about right. It's like the 10,000 jobs number: your numbers are all garbage.

What these folks don't yet realize is the next part of the SWA plan: Get the competition off Hobby! You're not actually going to let those Mexican LCCs into Hobby. Or anybody else...

 

[Flopgut]

WOW WOW and WOW


If all should be at IAH or HOU, should not the whole industry follow ?

All flying must be flown out of LAX, JFK. MIA ,ORD just to name a few. No more several airports in any city.



PS As far as no pension, I heard they get profit sharing and 401k which is there money no mater what happens to the airline. I head some of there pilots retiring with almost 4M, to me that seems better that CAL or UAL pension


How much money are the UAL and CAL pilots retiring with in there pension?

Whatever amount SWA is ahead of the legacies in career dollars [everything] at this time, most legacies were even further ahead (by at least a factor of 2) of SWA at one time.

That really ought to be something you realize, even if you are very young right now...

 

[humveedriver]

I think the UAL thesis that your "SWA effect" has diminished is about right. At the numbers you're talking about, you will lose 76m per year on the projected service. That's the UAL number and I think it's about right. It's like the 10,000 jobs number: your numbers are all garbage.

What these folks don't yet realize is the next part of the SWA plan: Get the competition off Hobby! You're not actually going to let those Mexican LCCs into Hobby. Or anybody else...

United has 97 percent of the market share in the 12 cities that will most likely be targeted by SWA. I bet GK's pupils turned into dollar signs like mine did when he read that...

 

[outerlimits]

Whatever amount SWA is ahead of the legacies in career dollars [everything] at this time, most legacies were even further ahead (by at least a factor of 2) of SWA at one time.

That really ought to be something you realize, even if you are very young right now...

I might be young and not the brightest, but I do know when I play poker, I look at what I walked away from the table with. I do not look at how much I might have had in front on me at a given time.

I have lost my ass many of times, if I looked at the way you do ,I have always won.

 

[Flopgut]

United has 97 percent of the market share in the 12 cities that will most likely be targeted by SWA. I bet GK's pupils turned into dollar signs like mine did when he read that...

It's been that way for a long time. Too long, in fact, for you to act like this is only now occuring to GK. He is not opportuning the market domination UAL has, so much as he is opportuning the age old SWA airport stunt. He knows he would have never got the city council to buy off on an international Hobby if CAL were still in town. And he also knows if he has to park airplanes right next to us and sell directly against us, he might not win. That is what this is about.

 

[Flopgut]

I might be young and not the brightest, but I do know when I play poker, I look at what I walked away from the table with. I do not look at how much I might have had in front on me at a given time.

I have lost my ass many of times, if I looked at the way you do ,I have always won.

I don't know anything about poker. I do know football. And I know if I've been disciplined in training, I've practiced well, and I've done my homework, I can beat the guy across the line of scrimage from me.

I can't beat a guy who won't line up with me. SWA knows this and they won't line up. They've gone to the refs and they want them to decide it.

 

[texman]

It's been that way for a long time. Too long, in fact, for you to act like this is only now occuring to GK. He is not opportuning the market domination UAL has, so much as he is opportuning the age old SWA airport stunt. He knows he would have never got the city council to buy off on an international Hobby if CAL were still in town. And he also knows if he has to park airplanes right next to us and sell directly against us, he might not win. That is what this is about.

Your right. But again, your feed is out of IAH and ours will be out of HOU. So why wast our time with out the feed? We would lose in IAH and you would in HOU.

 

[humveedriver]

And mountains were put on earth only for skiers and not snowboarders right? Old thinking versus new thinking. I absolutely agree that there is politics at play. But United accepted that risk when they made the command decision to HQ in Chicago.

 

[Flopgut]

Your right. But again, your feed is out of IAH and ours will be out of HOU. So why wast our time with out the feed? We would lose in IAH and you would in HOU.

And mountains were put on earth only for skiers and not snowboarders right? Old thinking versus new thinking. I absolutely agree that there is politics at play. But United accepted that risk when they made the command decision to HQ in Chicago.

Perfect Gentlemen: Makes my point. The arguement here is: Who made a bigger mistake? SWA chose the non-international airport at Hobby, and UAL moved CAL hdqts to ORD. If the city council is smart and cooler heads prevail, the smart decision will be made.

 

[waveflyer]

No flop, it's a really dumb argument-
You chose IAH, bc you needed a big airport that could handle widebodies and your hub and spoke congestion. It's way out away from the city and not where we wanted to do business - hobby works for us- we don't care what united wants to do- you operate out of the airport you want to, we'll operate out of the one we want to-
But it's really stupid to say that nothing can change, and we aren't free to build up and do what's best for swa-

I do think I'm done with this thread though- we're all arguing with one guy- and he's stuck on repeat-
Show us an agreement Houston had that says all international flying would be done out of IAH- and there's a reason we're having to make our case- until then I'm a bit resentful that we even have to go through this process

 

[outerlimits]

I don't know anything about poker. I do know football. And I know if I've been disciplined in training, I've practiced well, and I've done my homework, I can beat the guy across the line of scrimage from me.

I can't beat a guy who won't line up with me. SWA knows this and they won't line up. They've gone to the refs and they want them to decide it.

So you say this is like football and one team will not come out and play.
You have completely lost your marbles

 

[humveedriver]

Does United fly out of Denver? Is this the highly coveted fair fight. Keep your fingers crossed Flop. You may get your wish one day.

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/...gins-international-service-in-denver/673621/1

 

[Flopgut]

Show us an agreement Houston had that says all international flying would be done out of IAH- and there's a reason we're having to make our case- until then I'm a bit resentful that we even have to go through this process

I love it. You are "resentful" the City of Houston might want to have a say in how things get done in Houston?! I think you should send that into the Chronicle. Let Houstonians know that you don't think they are equipped to run their city.

IAH is not a congested airport. It's the 7th largest in the US and it has almost zero delays by comparison. That is just you blurting out the normal SWA BS-speak.