SWA wants to fly from HOU to MEX and SouthAmerica

[waveflyer]

No flop-
The argument is about United asking to create a restriction on international flying out of hobby, not in overturning an existing regulation against it.
Please refute and source if you can-

 

[Saluki Dawg]

Reading all the replies on the Houston Chronicle blog you would think that United threatened to kill every Houston based Employee's first born child if they didn't post a negative comment about what a job killing machine Southwest would be if allowed to fly International from Hobby. I've never seen so many misinformed posts (that are being stated as facts BTW) in my life. Half the posts on that blog made Flopgut look reasonable by comparison.

 

[fam62c]

SW will do this either way if they want to. If it doesn't work in Houston there will be another southern city that will bend over backwards to get SW international service, maybe SAT or AUS. It's coming no matter what and if it's cheaper SW will still pull people from Houston and force UCAL to lower fares. Competition is a fact of life in this business, there's nowhere to hide anymore. UCAL shouldn't be using the jobs of it's employees as a pawn in this game.

 

[Scoot 11]

No flop-
The argument is about United asking to create a restriction on international flying out of hobby, not in overturning an existing regulation against it.
Please refute and source if you can-

So wave:
What's the bfd? United is doing nothing different than you did during the DL/US Airways slot swap at LGA/DCA. Why is it that competition is good if its only in your favor?

 

[PCL_128]

So wave:
What's the bfd? United is doing nothing different than you did during the DL/US Airways slot swap at LGA/DCA. Why is it that competition is good if its only in your favor?

LGA and DCA are slot controlled airports. HOU and IAH do not have any slot restrictions. Not a comparable situation at all.

 

[PCL_128]

Flop, I'm trying to see your side of this. I really am. But I'm just not finding any logic to your argument. In fact, I can't even figure out what your argument is. What exactly is the logical basis for your argument? Not emotion, just logic and facts. Right now, I'm not seeing any.

I've looked high and low for any indication that there is some sort of statute that prohibits international operations our of HOU, and I can't find any. And if there is one, there shouldn't be. If you want to argue for re-regulation of the airline industry, then I'll be right there with you. But this isn't a regulated industry right now, and I certainly haven't seen Smisek or UAL spending a bunch of lobbying dollars on fighting for re-regulation. So, as long as this industry is de-regulated, you can't expect artificial limits on the market place that you're arguing for here. Either regulate it, or allow the market to work. You can't have it both ways.

 

[outerlimits]

So wave:
What's the bfd? United is doing nothing different than you did during the DL/US Airways slot swap at LGA/DCA. Why is it that competition is good if its only in your favor?

Are you even a pilot ?

LGA and DCA have a limited amount of slots, where as other airports like HOU do not and anyone can fly out of.

Time for you to get ready for school, after you go cry to the moderators as you always do.

 

[Flopgut]

No flop-
The argument is about United asking to create a restriction on international flying out of hobby, not in overturning an existing regulation against it.
Please refute and source if you can-

It's all over www.chron.com you just have to read it. Idk if it's approval for the flights, or approval to build the building, or if there is a written deal between IAH airlines and the city? IDK. But there is very clearly a vote that has to take place by the city council to approve it. Now, I'm guessing that's not going to be satisfactory for you? So before I go try and access some secret piece of data that I really can't get to, I'd like to point out that GK wants this to remain a question in your mind. He has to try and make UAL/CAL the villian in your mind by keeping things unclear.

Reading all the replies on the Houston Chronicle blog you would think that United threatened to kill every Houston based Employee's first born child if they didn't post a negative comment about what a job killing machine Southwest would be if allowed to fly International from Hobby. I've never seen so many misinformed posts (that are being stated as facts BTW) in my life. Half the posts on that blog made Flopgut look reasonable by comparison.

If you and your fellow employees had been through what we have been through in the last 10+ years, you would understand. You've had nothing but milk and honey and blue skies.

Question: Where is SWA coming up with the 10,000 jobs created number?! That sounds like a very convenient, very large number? It's an obvious exaggeration. Jeff says we displace 1300 because you open up Hobby, he means it. That's what he does. That blood will be on SWA's and the city of Houston's hands.

Flop, I'm trying to see your side of this. I really am. But I'm just not finding any logic to your argument. In fact, I can't even figure out what your argument is. What exactly is the logical basis for your argument? Not emotion, just logic and facts. Right now, I'm not seeing any.

I've looked high and low for any indication that there is some sort of statute that prohibits international operations our of HOU, and I can't find any. And if there is one, there shouldn't be. If you want to argue for re-regulation of the airline industry, then I'll be right there with you. But this isn't a regulated industry right now, and I certainly haven't seen Smisek or UAL spending a bunch of lobbying dollars on fighting for re-regulation. So, as long as this industry is de-regulated, you can't expect artificial limits on the market place that you're arguing for here. Either regulate it, or allow the market to work. You can't have it both ways.

I have two problems with this: My airline spent 1.5 billion on an airport based on a real agreement made in good faith. SWA wants to spend just 100mil and glean the cream off what we built by challenging the City of Houston to betray the IAH agreement. We're not going to get a refund on that 1.5 billion. It's been built. That disparity is the only thing that is going to allow SWA to be competitive on Houston airfares. UAL has SWA beat on straight up fares right now.

Secondly, and try to stay wih me guys, here is the next thing that is going to happen, IMHO: Drama is key to what GK & SWA want to do. UAL/CAL employees have to be the villians, SWA has to be the underdog. GK has to create this illusion because ultimately SWA does not want to just build this and start these flights. They want it to appear that they just barely got the deal done and they want it to include something like the WA. SWA does not want Hobby to be somewhere that other airlines can come into unrestricted. He wants to be able to limit who and how many competitors there will be by accepting a deal with the city that meets his needs for an international foothold, but makes it less/not acceptable to other airlines. SWA will get crushed in a straight up, fair fight on a level playing field trying to launch these international flights.

That's the SWA way. That's how you got off the ground in the first place, that's how you will start international flights.

You guys need to go to www.chron.com and read what is going on. It is abundantly clear that there is a vote that has to take place by the Houston City Council. It is complete BS and frankly a sad state of affairs in Houston for former Continental employees. We fought off SWA in a level playing field. We built a great world class airport where there are not a lot of delays and plenty of room for competition. We've still got to raise the mortgage on that. SWA will demonize the CAL/UAL employees and wage war on us from the comfort of an airport we will end up not being allowed to use ourselves. It's going to end up SWA's protected enclave, just like Love Field was. That is my thesis on where this is going.

 

[Britpilot]

That's an agreement they made with CAL that allowed us to feel confident we could spend billions (yep, with a B) on the airport.

Just wondering how many Billions (with a B) CAL has made out of IAH?

 

[Flopgut]

Just wondering how many Billions (with a B) CAL has made out of IAH?

Idk. But if you are trying to insinuate that CAL exploited the city you won't get too far. We had more downs than ups and still did a remarkable amount of things for the city. Why don't you pose/compare that with SWA? They've done nothing but make money. Have they done that much more for any city? Nope...

Please check out the blogs. It's clear that SWA could not get this done if we were still Continental and not merged with United. There is still a great deal of positive sentiment toward CAL in Houston. And we earned it. The poll is still in favor of not opening Hobby to SWA international flights, despite certain united IP addresses not being allowed to vote, and the fact that the writer Steffy is clearly biased to SWA.