SWA wants to fly from HOU to MEX and SouthAmerica

[outerlimits]

One of the main reasons any legacy ends up with aweful mgt is that no quality leadership wants to manage against the ridiculous advantage SWA is usually given on issues like this. Ex: Biggest merger in history (so far), CAL and UAL approved almost instantly because they offered SWA some EWR gates. WTF?!

Are you kidding me.

Leader sucks at most airlines because they are a bunch of thieves, that only care about how much money they can stuff into there bank account before they leave.


You have completely lost it if your believing what your printing .

 

[Flopgut]

You went from this:

It will not cost the city a dime!

To this:

Until you can prove that the city will pay for every dime and not make money off the deal, then yes it is a LIE.

Pretty much sums up this whole thread.

 

[texman]

You went from this:



To this:



Pretty much sums up this whole thread.

No it doesn't? I have sympathized with your frustration. This whole thread is you crying that SWA is going to get its way. Again, is this going to cost the city of Houston a dime in the long run? NO?

Do you really think this is the end of the world for UA?

We will have a answer this week. Don't lose any sleep.

 

[Continental]

Hey my friend, you know what? I bet I've got less sick time than you, have filed more grievances, and written more resolutions than you have. In 16 years I've picked up a turn twice, never been junior manned, never done them a favor, have cancelled two flights for sticking to the contract. I don't know who you are, you might be a more reliable member than me, but I doubt it.

The real crisis at this airline are the guys who act hard, but aren't. May not be you? Sure as hell aint me, so we don't have a problem. I come to work to strike this s__thole and put it out of business. That's it.

I am proud of some of what we did do at one time. That's why I'm not in favor of SWA once again getting their way. One of the main reasons any legacy ends up with aweful mgt is that no quality leadership wants to manage against the ridiculous advantage SWA is usually given on issues like this. Ex: Biggest merger in history (so far), CAL and UAL approved almost instantly because they offered SWA some EWR gates. WTF?!

Hey man well good for you that you have done all that. Hats off to you then. But it's not our fault that our inept mgt never had the foresight to think SWA might one day fly intl. That's their problem.
But touting BS off that keep-iah-strong is wrong. The people like Swellbar who hates unions are the very folks that UAL went and hired for that propaganda. The same people who will turn around and say the union needs to get real and take whatever is given to them.
This is the same mgt who turned it's back on Houston when deciding to move HQ to Chicago in one of the most expensive buildings. Sure they could have kept it at IAh and kept it Houston's hometown airline and let's face it save some cash. But no. So if the city of Houston turns it's back on them well..Thats what they get.

IAH is 90 percent UAL if not higher. DAL/AA/US have what like 6-7 gates in IAH? Remember the old Terminal D. The one where everyone came in from INTL? What happened when the new Terminal E was made? Funny how 95 percent of the gates routed to customs from E. Why is that? Funny how UAL decided to build that A wing for Colgan. Build out the B terminal for Express carriers. Now tearing down other side of B for more gates. Seems like they are creating a stronghold there. Again we have gates in most of A, all of B, and all of C and E. Where is the room for any other airline that wants to expand? Everyone should have a shot if they want to right? Isn't that what happened to DEN? SWA started small there, grew when they saw opportunity, and what did UAL do. Nothing..Well shrink. Again CAL/UAl MGT has NEVER been innovative on anything. They are purely reactionary. You know what reactionary just doesn't keep up. We could be running 73s from DAL to DEN but we don't. Why because we don't compete with SWA remember?

I recently took a trip on purchased tickets INTL on DELTA? Why because UAL decided to stop going there. The difference was night and day to ours. DAL has an excellent product and service. WAY better than ours. I was taken back a little to be honest. Here I was just an average joe and getting service in coach that pretty much mirrors our business class. Seems like there was a service every hour. 1 meal, 2 hot snacks, ice cream, Free booze Pillows/Blankets..What are those? Pretzels/peanuts/cookies I vaguely remember those?
There was a delay and DAL had everything ready for us out of customs. No less than 8 agents meeting people with hotels and vouchers ready, connections ready, agents whisking us to our gates. Over here it's go get in line at customer service. It's no surprise DAL is kicking our butt as well.

If anything we don't need to sit in the corner and cry foul when rivals step up their game. We need to compete and get better. That's the whole point of competition. It is supposed to make you better. If we can't improve and compete against others than we have no business being in business. Maybe if we put out a decent product people would continue to fly UAL. Notice AA is matching 1K/gold/plat or whatever to come over to AA. UAL could do the same if they wanted to. But they don't. People are running away from this train wreck and I can't blame them. I don't even fly on us if I can avoid it. It is just a terrible product and I am not doing one thing to help improve it. If they want to be mediocre then fine by me. I can dial it way down. But I will take my money elsewhere like everyone else.

 

[waveflyer]

I come to work to strike this s__thole and put it out of business. That's it.

I am proud of some of what we did do at one time. That's why I'm not in favor of SWA once again getting their way. One of the main reasons any legacy ends up with aweful mgt is that no quality leadership wants to manage against the ridiculous advantage SWA is usually given on issues like this. Ex: Biggest merger in history (so far), CAL and UAL approved almost instantly because they offered SWA some EWR gates. WTF?!

So you're just a hater then? 30,000 pages and it comes down to you wanting your company to fail, as long as swa doesn't succeed. Got it.

 

[Flopgut]

Hey man well good for you that you have done all that. Hats off to you then. But it's not our fault that our inept mgt never had the foresight to think SWA might one day fly intl. That's their problem.
But touting BS off that keep-iah-strong is wrong. The people like Swellbar who hates unions are the very folks that UAL went and hired for that propaganda. The same people who will turn around and say the union needs to get real and take whatever is given to them.
This is the same mgt who turned it's back on Houston when deciding to move HQ to Chicago in one of the most expensive buildings. Sure they could have kept it at IAh and kept it Houston's hometown airline and let's face it save some cash. But no. So if the city of Houston turns it's back on them well..Thats what they get.

IAH is 90 percent UAL if not higher. DAL/AA/US have what like 6-7 gates in IAH? Remember the old Terminal D. The one where everyone came in from INTL? What happened when the new Terminal E was made? Funny how 95 percent of the gates routed to customs from E. Why is that? Funny how UAL decided to build that A wing for Colgan. Build out the B terminal for Express carriers. Now tearing down other side of B for more gates. Seems like they are creating a stronghold there. Again we have gates in most of A, all of B, and all of C and E. Where is the room for any other airline that wants to expand? Everyone should have a shot if they want to right? Isn't that what happened to DEN? SWA started small there, grew when they saw opportunity, and what did UAL do. Nothing..Well shrink. Again CAL/UAl MGT has NEVER been innovative on anything. They are purely reactionary. You know what reactionary just doesn't keep up. We could be running 73s from DAL to DEN but we don't. Why because we don't compete with SWA remember?

I recently took a trip on purchased tickets INTL on DELTA? Why because UAL decided to stop going there. The difference was night and day to ours. DAL has an excellent product and service. WAY better than ours. I was taken back a little to be honest. Here I was just an average joe and getting service in coach that pretty much mirrors our business class. Seems like there was a service every hour. 1 meal, 2 hot snacks, ice cream, Free booze Pillows/Blankets..What are those? Pretzels/peanuts/cookies I vaguely remember those?
There was a delay and DAL had everything ready for us out of customs. No less than 8 agents meeting people with hotels and vouchers ready, connections ready, agents whisking us to our gates. Over here it's go get in line at customer service. It's no surprise DAL is kicking our butt as well.

If anything we don't need to sit in the corner and cry foul when rivals step up their game. We need to compete and get better. That's the whole point of competition. It is supposed to make you better. If we can't improve and compete against others than we have no business being in business. Maybe if we put out a decent product people would continue to fly UAL. Notice AA is matching 1K/gold/plat or whatever to come over to AA. UAL could do the same if they wanted to. But they don't. People are running away from this train wreck and I can't blame them. I don't even fly on us if I can avoid it. It is just a terrible product and I am not doing one thing to help improve it. If they want to be mediocre then fine by me. I can dial it way down. But I will take my money elsewhere like everyone else.

I understand your points and you might be right. I don't care to be a cheerleader for UAL, at all. As I look back, I think we did some good things at CAL. This issue is sort of CAL's last stand. You might want to look more closely at the reasoning for not allowing SWA to open this terminal? (It isn't going to matter after tomorrow, but SWA isn't really stepping up their game. That would coming to IAH where FIS already exists and there are open gates.) The data against them has teeth, and is part what SWA has already agreed to in Dallas as part of the WA settlement. There is more real data that can be cited as reasoning to not allow SWA to do this, than there is to allow it. But, they are SWA and they usually get their way. If it weren't for SWA, we would all realize deregulation was an abject failure. That's why they get propped up, and that's why I don't care for them. You know Bethune is stumping for UAL on this? I'm appreciative that he is doing that. I think if he felt like UAL prevailed and he carried the day, he might be asked to step in for Jeff. A stretch, I know. But sure as hell won't happen if a logical, well documented case get's tossed so SWA can have their whim. A bad CEO is our biggest problem right now

So you're just a hater then? 30,000 pages and it comes down to you wanting your company to fail, as long as swa doesn't succeed. Got it.

My airline is gone. UAL is not giving me any choice but to try and shut it down with a strike. My family was hurt once by SWA in Dallas. I'm not real interested in seeing it happen again in Houston.

I've pbly said on here a dozen times, I would not want SWA guys to hurt financially, or be rolled back contracturally. I'm just tired of seeing the handouts.

Not going to be the end of the world if UAL loses. I'm glad we at least have a chance. I'd love to see you denied and have to come to IAH to prove you have the better airline.

 

[texman]

Flop,

Since you are so passionate about SWA and it's hand out's, can you name at least 10 handouts Over the past 40 years.

 

[scoreboardII]

How about name one?

 

[bluesideup1]

Flop,

Not looking good for your: I want to use politics to stop my competitors.

http://blog.chron.com/houstonpolitics/2012/05/city-has-obligation-to-let-southwest-go-global-memo-says/

City has obligation to let Southwest go global, memo says
The city of Houston can’t deny Southwest’s proposal to open Hobby Airport to international commercial flights based on economic arguments alone, City Attorney David Feldman informed the mayor informed the City Council late last week in a memo attached to a legal opinion.

Feldman wrote, “…consideration of such economic issues for the community cannot be controlling; the City’s obligation to provide reasonable accommodation to Southwest is paramount, irrespective of such issues.”

Here’s Feldman’s memo:

MemoToCouncilSWA


The legal opinion comes just in advance of a scheduled hearing on Tuesday at which Southwest and United Airlines, which opposes Hobby expansion, are expected to debate whether having two international airports makes economic sense for Houston.

The Southwest plan calls for the addition of a Customs facility and five gates to Hobby. Though a city-commissioned study concludes that Hobby expansion would be a boon for the Houston economy, a study by United warns that it will cost 3,700 jobs, nearly $300 million a year in economic activity, reduced routes from Bush Intercontinental and the transfer of some United operations to other airports.

But a 14-page memo from attorney Peter Kirsch of the firm Kaplan Kirsch & Rockwell, indicates that the economic debate could be moot in the face of obligations the city has to the Federal Aviation Administration as a condition for receiving millions of dollars a year in federal funding.

Kirsch wrote “… the City is legally obligated to accommodate the reasonable needs of Southwest.”

He also wrote:

In meeting its obligations to the federal government, the City is required to negotiate in good faith with Southwest to provide the space and/or facilities that Southwest has requested to meet its needs for international service.

Kirsch leaves the door slightly ajar for grappling over whether this means the Southwest plan is a legal slam-dunk. The city should be guided by the overarching principle that the city is required to provide access on reasonable terms and without discrimination, Kirsch wrote.

But, he added:

The interpretation of this principle is unusually complex in this instance because there is no controlling precedent either in case law or under regulations, policies or determinations issued by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) that are precisely applicable to the facts presented here.

A United spokeswoman sent an email message that the company disagrees with the legal opinion.

 

[waveflyer]

Delete

 

[waveflyer]

Repeat

 

[waveflyer]

Decision tomorrow,
Sign the petition if you have not-Don't take the win for granted.

Freehobbyairport.com

 

[PCL_128]

Correction: freehobbyairport.com

 

[waveflyer]

Damn PCL- I was having issues for a minute

 

[waveflyer]

Good stuff blueside

 

[Flopgut]

How about name one?

Stayed at Love...

 

[Flopgut]

Even if the City Council approves SWA's terminal, the FAA has to approve it also. The FAA has said in Assurance Grants 23 and 39 that HAS is not required to accomodate SWA. Underutilized FIS is available at IAH where there are currently 12 gates available. SWA has served the airport in the past and it is abundantly clear SWA left, and does not want to go back, to avoid competeing with UAL and the other IAH carriers. Additionally, the FAA recognizes that limiting certain aircraft operation to a single airport in a multi airport system is customary. A court case precedent, which is from Denver and an airline called Centennial, produced a final agency decision and order from the FAA stating that these limits may be imposed.

0900 the meeting kicks off. We'll see how it goes. I don't think SWA has done enough to win this. Overstated what the positives are to the City and been less than clear about how much they would actually pay for. If SWA get's this it will be a HUGE handout.

Couple of sidenotes: GK wants this limited to 737 size aircraft only, and he only wants 5 gates for 25 flights. He's making NO accomodation for any other operator or any other size airplane. It will be interesting to see if he get's those two requests approved. If it all comes together for him, it will be the most exaggerated accomodation of one airline's needs I think has ever happened.

 

[tankerhead]

Thanks, chicken little!

 

[outerlimits]

Flop

I think UAL will be able to kick SWA azz even if SWA does win this.


I am assuming the rest of the UAL pilots are willing to take the pay cut you are willing to take,to shut down SWA.

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

Flop, do yo really think the FAA would block this. Remember SWA is one of the only airlines that hasn't drank from the government tit. So you really sound like you want to restrict competition. Sad little boy you are!