SWA...Too Prepared???

[ASA Captain]

I have seen numerous posts about interviewees being too prepared.

I did NOT do a official prep before my first interview in 2004. My wife had lots of experience with the TMAAT questions from working in HR and I practiced with her once. Crash and Burn.

The second time, early this year, I prepped with Judy Tarver. She had pointed out that I was leaving out important details in my story. I decided to spell out the details (ac, seat, city, crew name), and then go through the story.

Of course I have been trying to examine why I got shot down again, and I fear that my way of communicating the situation details first then telling the story was mistaken for being canned or too prepped.

I had an "in" or two, but that made no difference. Who knows?

I am more than eager to work at SWA, and I don't think I was arrogant about my chances...especially the second time around.

I worked within SWA, have a deep desire to work there again, had numerous strong recommendations (some from within the company), one speeding ticket, two check busts years ago, and a history of going out of my way to help people everywhere I have worked.

It is very disheartening.

 

[scoreboard]

The only point I have about being prepared is, it is a good thing. Would you go into a checkride unprepared? No. Why go to an interview unprepared. Now, how to make that work for you. Most importantly, memorizing details about yourself is probably a bad thing and HR picks up on that. I approached it by reviewing probable TMAAT questions with events I had participated in, the key is what these events meant to me and or what they offered the organization or others, not the verbatum response. Everytime I retold those stories, it was fresh, unrehearsed, different. I did not have a canned answer for any one TMAAT, I had a few "story lines". I even used one story for about 3 questions.

Being nervous is expected, add to that a canned answer and now they have a doubt about you. Remember, first impressions, if you keep stumbling, they pick up on it. On the other hand, I had to delay a few answers because I locked up, took my time, then answered best I could. I had a real bad night before the interview, like 2 hours sleep. I left the hotel knowing i would bomb, so I just decided to go have fun. That was the key for me, get to know the folks who you are talking to, then tell them what they want to know, who you are.

Oh, keep trying.

 

[Bill Nelson]

I prepped with Judy Tarver.

And what was the question again?

 

[skiandsurf]

one speeding ticket, two check busts years ago, and a history of going out of my way to help people everywhere I have worked.

It is very disheartening.

Wow, an honest guy on these boards.

I think that most airlines today, do not hire "pilots", they hire "story tellers". Its all about....."tell me a time when you had an emergency" or "tell me a time when you didnt get along with your coworkers".

You know the loudest guy in the crewroom, kind of annoying but always draws attention because he tells great stories, that is who will get the job. Usually when this annoying, loud guy gets hired, the rest of the crew room scatches there heads and says "why him?" Its because these guys tell great stories.

We can all show up to work on time and fly airplanes, but we cant all tell good stories.

 

[Farscape]

Most of us that interviewed and got rejected all thought that we did well enough in the interview to get hired. Most of us know of one or two people that got hired that make you just scratch your head and go huh? The review and selection process looking from the outside in looks rather randomm and subjective, I'm sure that's not the case, but that's how it looks. In my opinion they need a really good reason to reject you on the second time through, not, too nervous, sounded too canned, looked away too many times etc. . . . I know those things are all important, but they are not deal breakers in my book. I guess it does'nt really matter what we think though, because it's SWA game and they make up the rules and if we don't like it we can choose not too play. To me the only advice I could give is don't be bitter, it's not worth it, get prep because it just seems totally foolish not to prepare oneself for such a big event, and if given another chance remember that they don't owe you anything and just be yourself, have fun and enjoy the free lunch.

 

[CA1900]

I prepped with Judy Tarver for my first interview last year, and while she was very nice, I don't feel she did much to improve my interview readiness. I got shot down as well. I'm not bitter, but between the $8000 type rating and the $370 for two nights in that Renaissance (the cheap rate was "unavailable" that week), calling it a free lunch is more than a bit of a stretch.

 

[PFTEXPJET]

I'm just wondering why people pay $8000+ when you know your chance of getting hired the first time is only 20% max? Someone please explain, serious, no flame bait.

 

[slaquer5]

Wow, an honest guy on these boards.

I think that most airlines today, do not hire "pilots", they hire "story tellers". Its all about....."tell me a time when you had an emergency" or "tell me a time when you didnt get along with your coworkers".

You know the loudest guy in the crewroom, kind of annoying but always draws attention because he tells great stories, that is who will get the job. Usually when this annoying, loud guy gets hired, the rest of the crew room scatches there heads and says "why him?" Its because these guys tell great stories.

We can all show up to work on time and fly airplanes, but we cant all tell good stories.

I need to laugh, SWA hired him about 4 to 5 yrs ago and he loves to write up captains .

PS never been written up by him by hear him any time he is arround.

 

[radar_contact]

I have seen numerous posts about interviewees being too prepared.

I did NOT do a official prep before my first interview in 2004. My wife had lots of experience with the TMAAT questions from working in HR and I practiced with her once. Crash and Burn.

The second time, early this year, I prepped with Judy Tarver. She had pointed out that I was leaving out important details in my story. I decided to spell out the details (ac, seat, city, crew name), and then go through the story.

Of course I have been trying to examine why I got shot down again, and I fear that my way of communicating the situation details first then telling the story was mistaken for being canned or too prepped.

I had an "in" or two, but that made no difference. Who knows?

I am more than eager to work at SWA, and I don't think I was arrogant about my chances...especially the second time around.

I worked within SWA, have a deep desire to work there again, had numerous strong recommendations (some from within the company), one speeding ticket, two check busts years ago, and a history of going out of my way to help people everywhere I have worked.

It is very disheartening.

I think you may be over analyzing here....there's more to the interview process than just answering their questions the right way. Maybe it was because you were too rehearsed...maybe you didn't put enough emphasis on the RESULTS of each situation (you did answer in the SAR format, right?)....maybe it was something in the LOI....maybe it was your tie....who knows. They know who they are looking for, and for whatever reason they saw something they didn't like. I know so many exceptional pilots with great, outgoing personalities who seem to fit the SWA mold, and they didn't get hired. Makes you scratch your head wondering "how did he NOT get hired?" But there is a reason....unfortunately we'll never know why.

I agree with scoreboard's advice...if/when you get the opportunity again, just go in and have fun. Be yourself. That way, you can at least look at yourself in the mirror knowing that you showed them who YOU really are. If you get hired, GREAT. If not, it should be easier to accept the fact that you're not the type of person they're looking for.

 

[flatspin7]

I'm just wondering why people pay $8000+ when you know your chance of getting hired the first time is only 20% max? Someone please explain, serious, no flame bait.

Especially when I keep hearing of people who have gotten hired with out the type...

And I have talked to people at CAL who look at a 737 type with out any time or a job with a bit of skepticism.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Just because you didn't get hired doesn't necessarily mean you didn't interview well. You probably didn't but it isn't always the case. The guys that make it through the interview process get sent to the review board. If they have 2 classes of 24 each, totally 48 that they are staffing for and the reviewers send them 60 names, guess what? 12 guys don't get hired. Its just the way it is.

This is where networking is "SO VERY" important. If you have a friend that is a Pilot for SWA you need to keep this person/persons in the loop as you proceed down the interviewing road. If they like you and are willing to go the extra mile they will contact there Chief Pilot and plant your name in there ear way before you actually interview. Then again after the interview, then a week before the review board, then a day before the review board. I also would leave a letter in the Chiefs mail box a week or so before my buds would interview too. Then when there a stack of 60 resumes sitting in front of the Chiefs at the board and theres only 48 slots and this particular Chief heres your name come through, guess what............Bingo! You just won the 2006 lottery!

I know the interview road is not a nice process at times jumping through all the hoops. I have had a dozen or so myself and have only been hired out of a few of them. Sometimes you never know what they actually want. I can tell you from personal experience that SWA likes motivated people and also places a very high emphasis and management/check Pilot experience. They also like people that go the extra mile like running down the jetway to grab strollers, pushing wheelchairs etc. Best thing to do is go in and be yourself and try to show the positive things you have done. There is a term that was used earlier in this thread called SAR. I didnt know what it meant until I was interviewing at SWA myself. It stands for Situation/Action/Result. They will give you a question/situation. They want to here your action and the results should be positive always showing you going that extra mile.

Hope some of this helps, Best of luck in your future endeavors.

 

[ByeUSAir]

Look around for another door to open. I thought I wanted SWA, I interviewed I tell good stories and I was getting furloughed in the coming months. When I was not selected I was bummed. But I looked around and before I knew it CAL called and I was in class before I would have even been in class at SWA. I would be commuting for SWA if I was hired, instead I am driving to work near CLE.

You might think you want SWA but maybe someone else is trying to tell you that SWA is not in your cards. Keep looking for that door. I know what your going through and keep your chin-up

 

[atafan]

Reading through this thread I'm reading about guys taking prep courses, honing up on their story telling abilities, making sure to be PC and not checking out the chicks, all to land that lotto ticket job.

This sure sounds like United mid to late 90's.

Kinda gives me goose bumps.......

It's nice to hear that Judy Tarver is still around taking your money.

 

[TurboS7]

Hello guys, I two was shot down but in the process began a facination with SWA. I am a missionary kid, I grew up in the jungles of South America, my parents worked with the Indians. So I looked at SWA as an Culture, a tribe,a group and I started studying it. You can't study for the interview, either you were born one of them or you are not. You can maybe become one of them, like a missionary kid, you conform and they accept you, but if you aren't of their blood, you are not going to make it. The problem is that there are only so many of "them" so they have to start letting others in. Study the book "nuts", and read it and read it again. Study the Bible,yup,John, Romans, I John 1,2,3, this is all ingrained into the unique culture. They want someone who does not study for an interview but is more concerned about the NEXT guy getting the job instead of you. If you are competitive against your fellow interviewer you are not going to make it. They want you to be the kind of person that if there was only 1 postion left and they had to choose between you and the other guy, they want you to say, take the other guy, he needs the job more than myself. I am very competitive, in an interview you are competing against the rest of the world, doesn't work at SWA. I don't think even Judy Tarver understands that, SWA is a totally diffrent airline, and like a tribe down in SA they will fight to maintain their culture the way that it is, they will protect it at any cost. Crazy, but it seems that is the way it is.

 

[jhill]

Hello guys, I two was shot down but in the process began a facination with SWA. I am a missionary kid, I grew up in the jungles of South America, my parents worked with the Indians. So I looked at SWA as an Culture, a tribe,a group and I started studying it. You can't study for the interview, either you were born one of them or you are not. You can maybe become one of them, like a missionary kid, you conform and they accept you, but if you aren't of their blood, you are not going to make it. The problem is that there are only so many of "them" so they have to start letting others in. Study the book "nuts", and read it and read it again. Study the Bible,yup,John, Romans, I John 1,2,3, this is all ingrained into the unique culture. They want someone who does not study for an interview but is more concerned about the NEXT guy getting the job instead of you. If you are competitive against your fellow interviewer you are not going to make it. They want you to be the kind of person that if there was only 1 postion left and they had to choose between you and the other guy, they want you to say, take the other guy, he needs the job more than myself. I am very competitive, in an interview you are competing against the rest of the world, doesn't work at SWA. I don't think even Judy Tarver understands that, SWA is a totally diffrent airline, and like a tribe down in SA they will fight to maintain their culture the way that it is, they will protect it at any cost. Crazy, but it seems that is the way it is.

Did you say "Crazy". Yea, I think you are

 

[El Pobre]

Hmmm, just out of curiosity, how long ago were the checkride busts??? With so many qualified candidates applying to SWA (the best airline ever), I would suspect that two checkride busts might be an issue. One, you might be able to pass off as a "bad day". Two....I'm willing to be that raised eyebrows, and I'm not sure that in today's day and age, the liability of hiring someone with two busts might not be an issue.

Just my 2 cents, but if the checkrides were withing the past 4-5 years, it might take a little longer.

EP

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hello guys, I two was shot down but in the process began a facination with SWA. I am a missionary kid, I grew up in the jungles of South America, my parents worked with the Indians. So I looked at SWA as an Culture, a tribe,a group and I started studying it. You can't study for the interview, either you were born one of them or you are not. You can maybe become one of them, like a missionary kid, you conform and they accept you, but if you aren't of their blood, you are not going to make it. The problem is that there are only so many of "them" so they have to start letting others in. Study the book "nuts", and read it and read it again. Study the Bible,yup,John, Romans, I John 1,2,3, this is all ingrained into the unique culture. They want someone who does not study for an interview but is more concerned about the NEXT guy getting the job instead of you. If you are competitive against your fellow interviewer you are not going to make it. They want you to be the kind of person that if there was only 1 postion left and they had to choose between you and the other guy, they want you to say, take the other guy, he needs the job more than myself. I am very competitive, in an interview you are competing against the rest of the world, doesn't work at SWA. I don't think even Judy Tarver understands that, SWA is a totally diffrent airline, and like a tribe down in SA they will fight to maintain their culture the way that it is, they will protect it at any cost. Crazy, but it seems that is the way it is.

Turbo..

great post. the guy that replied to you asked if you were crazy... well isn't that how the book Nuts is titled? Crazy recipe for success?

What you are talking about is Servant Leadership. SWA defines it as a Servants Heart. Also egalitrianism.

If you have always been a servant and egalitarian then you might do fine. If you are just learning about it then maybe not.... If you think these concepts are crazy then you are so far apart from SWA....

 

[TurboS7]

Servant Leadership-what life is all about- the problem with normal airline ops is that people walk all over you. But being a sevant means loving being a doormat. I had other issues that hurt me at SWA, maybe by this summer they will be resolved.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Servant Leadership-what life is all about- the problem with normal airline ops is that people walk all over you. But being a sevant means loving being a doormat. I had other issues that hurt me at SWA, maybe by this summer they will be resolved.

Nice... if you get hired at SWA.... in 20 years it won't matter if it took two attempts...

I would say not to "loving being a doormat" rather not letting how others treat you define who you are... The ability to function effectively in an environment where everyone is trying to draw the life out of you takes alot of character...

Consider working in an environment where everyone is intrested in making sure everyone is doing ok. That takes alot of self confidence and trust of ones own self... If we can elvolve into a culture that operates in such a way we will all do so much better....

 

[JimGlasair3]

Hmmm, just out of curiosity, how long ago were the checkride busts??? With so many qualified candidates applying to SWA (the best airline ever), I would suspect that two checkride busts might be an issue. One, you might be able to pass off as a "bad day". Two....I'm willing to be that raised eyebrows, and I'm not sure that in today's day and age, the liability of hiring someone with two busts might not be an issue.

Just my 2 cents, but if the checkrides were withing the past 4-5 years, it might take a little longer.

EP

During the logbook review in my interview last summer, the guy asked "No checkride busts?" I replied - no. His response: "Well that's unusual!" Still didn't get the job. No one that interviewed that day got the job.