SWA Removes B737 Type Requirment

[redflyer65]

You know PCL, at this point I don't even care that much...except when 27 Driver says it wasn't a doubling of salary.

When it was 131/hr (SW) vs. 72/hr (AirTran).

That's an increase of over 80% (I'll concede that's not quite a double). There were plenty that made out on the new payrates vs. what they were getting paid.

I will completely agree with you that AirTran should have been paid more and you guys were working hard toward that goal but you have to also realize that some did very well with this purchase. Others, not so much.

27, you going to chime in? Otherwise I'm done with the deadhorse.

 

[PCL_128]

red, "doing very well" is highly subjective. I did so "unwell" that I left, despite what you consider to be an 80% pay raise. Money is great, but it isn't everything. I wouldn't have gone back to commuting even for senior captain pay. Everyone has their own priorities. So claiming that people have "done well" just because of a pay raise is too simplistic.

 

[jonjuan]

red, "doing very well" is highly subjective. I did so "unwell" that I left, despite what you consider to be an 80% pay raise. Money is great, but it isn't everything. I wouldn't have gone back to commuting even for senior captain pay. Everyone has their own priorities. So claiming that people have "done well" just because of a pay raise is too simplistic.

You'd have to first pass the check ride.

 

[EngineThunder]

You'd have to first pass the Check ride.

Is dad paying for that too?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

He's got a point. Being forced into a commute after the virtual closure of a domicile is an extreme QOL hit.

Southwest is a W2 airline. They tend to look at W2 to the exclusion of all else. Some are little things like paid parking, paid uniforms. Others are bigger like no right of return, no long call reserve etc.

Money can't buy back time away from the family and, at least for most of the AirTran folks, commuting isn't a "choice". Their base was dissolved out from beneath them. It's no more right than what happened to the TWA guys in St. Louis or the USAir folks from da'burgh. But we can't say they made out great as a blanket statement without looking at how the transaction impacted quality of life.

 

[canyonblue]

Their base was dissolved out from beneath them.

No, their airline was dissolved beneath them. Same thing happened to TWA. It's the new model approach to dealing with a competitor, sometimes it's cheaper to kill them by buying them.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Boo hoo hoo...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Boo hoo hoo...

Really?! Can you imagine the uproar if Dallas closed tomorrow and the subsequent fiasco as some of the most senior pilots in the company were suddenly forced into commuting for the first time in decades?

A little empathy goes a long way.

 

[Tripower455]

He's got a point. Being forced into a commute after the virtual closure of a domicile is an extreme QOL hit.

It's equally extreme when you bid, move to a domicile, get forced out on a negative bid and then can't get back to the still open domicile for years because folks from the acquired airline are taking the slots. SWApA really screwed our junior guys by fighting ROR, but hey, at least I can snowbird my boat a little easier without that pesky ROR hampering my efforts!

Southwest is a W2 airline. They tend to look at W2 to the exclusion of all else. Some are little things like paid parking, paid uniforms. Others are bigger like no right of return, no long call reserve etc.

Funny, I always said the same about DAL and AA back in the day. My old man was a Pan Am guy that was "Acquired" by DAL with the atlantic routes. That was his, almost verbatim statement about QOL at DAL vs. Pan Am.

A close friend is a semi senior AA Capt. and for years, he made a lot more $$$ than I did at SW. Even 15 years ago, I wouldn't have traded schedules for twice what he was earning though.

I still wouldn't. My QOL and schedule flexibility are orders of magnitude better than his.

Money can't buy back time away from the family and, at least for most of the AirTran folks, commuting isn't a "choice".

The same can be said for lots of SW folks, and the issue has been exacerbated for them by the AT acquisition, in spite of their "global seniority gains".

Their base was dissolved out from beneath them. It's no more right than what happened to the TWA guys in St. Louis or the USAir folks from da'burgh. But we can't say they made out great as a blanket statement without looking at how the transaction impacted quality of life.

There was (and is) PLENTY of harm to go around on the SW side too. The only ones who gained anything were the folks who upgraded on the backs of the forfeited AT Capt seats. The rest of us got nothing (if we were lucky) and less. A lot of AT folks are getting raises to help compensate somewhat for their forced commute. Our guys get nothing for it as they watch former Air Tran folks take the seats they were displaced from.

Thanks GK!

 

[bluesideup1]

Really?! Can you imagine the uproar if Dallas closed tomorrow and the subsequent fiasco as some of the most senior pilots in the company were suddenly forced into commuting for the first time in decades?

A little empathy goes a long way.

Yes because adding 8 more bases to include what you already had is a horrible thing? Yes some got kicked out of their 1 main base but it is growing and a lot are getting back in.

How many hundreds don't have to commute to your ONE main base because they now have 8 additional bases to go to? I will happily put your numbers on how many were commuting to ATL that are now living in a base or a lot closer to a base vs. those who are now displaced out of a base and considering that ATL is growing I bet all those that want ATL will be there soon.

Now with the MASSIVE raises that the vast majority of the AT pilots got since the SW purchase should ease the pain of the initial displacement of those that were harmed on the AT side. On the SW side those that were displaced and cannot return to their base because of the acquisition got ZERO to help the medicine go down.

So, please stop playing the victim as the vast majority of the people at AT benefited from having more bases to choose from.

 

[PCL_128]

Thanks God I got out. If I had to listen to that BS for the next thirty years, I'd blow my brains out.

 

[redflyer65]

Thank God indeed.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yes because adding 8 more bases to include what you already had is a horrible thing? Yes some got kicked out of their 1 main base but it is growing and a lot are getting back in.

How many hundreds don't have to commute to your ONE main base because they now have 8 additional bases to go to? I will happily put your numbers on how many were commuting to ATL that are now living in a base or a lot closer to a base vs. those who are now displaced out of a base and considering that ATL is growing I bet all those that want ATL will be there soon.

Now with the MASSIVE raises that the vast majority of the AT pilots got since the SW purchase should ease the pain of the initial displacement of those that were harmed on the AT side. On the SW side those that were displaced and cannot return to their base because of the acquisition got ZERO to help the medicine go down.

So, please stop playing the victim as the vast majority of the people at AT benefited from having more bases to choose from.

Dude, wake the hell up. You only need to look at the ATL FO sniority list versus any other base to see how many pilots obviously did NOT benefit from having other bases to be forced to commute to. There are former Captains who can't get into their home domicile as FO. Sorry someone peed in your Cheerios, too.

Ps, I'm making $30.00 less per hour since transitioning, while commuting to a much further base. How much less are you making, and how has YOUR commute and pay changed? I've been pretty happy as an FO, but it's guys like you that remind me of how much less I'm making that make me consider putting in for Lance. Shut the hell up, already, fool.

 

[freightdogfred]

On the SW side those that were displaced and cannot return to their base because of the acquisition got ZERO to help the medicine go down.

I'm at a loss to see how anyone from SW was displaced, and cannot return to their base. There was no "bump and flush". There is no displacement bid. AT pilots were only allowed in to domiciles with openings. How could any SW pilot possibly get displaced?

 

[bluesideup1]

I'm at a loss to see how anyone from SW was displaced, and cannot return to their base. There was no "bump and flush". There is no displacement bid. AT pilots were only allowed in to domiciles with openings. How could any SW pilot possibly get displaced?

The fact that you are at a loss to see how anyone could have been displaced and cannot return to their base just shows how little you have been following what has been going on. Let me help you out on how those that are still waiting to get back to MCO got kicked out in the first place. Base shrinks a little they got displaced and with only real senior AT people coming in they cannot get back.

 

[bluesideup1]

Dude, wake the hell up. You only need to look at the ATL FO sniority list versus any other base to see how many pilots obviously did NOT benefit from having other bases to be forced to commute to. There are former Captains who can't get into their home domicile as FO. Sorry someone peed in your Cheerios, too.

Ps, I'm making $30.00 less per hour since transitioning, while commuting to a much further base. How much less are you making, and how has YOUR commute and pay changed? I've been pretty happy as an FO, but it's guys like you that remind me of how much less I'm making that make me consider putting in for Lance. Shut the hell up, already, fool.

Your making 30,000 less a year while 70% of your seniority list is making a lot more.

Your making more than before the acquisition right? Are you going to make a lot more over your career at SW than you would at AT? Considering most will make over a MILLION MORE over their career here than at AT you can see how I have little room for cry babies when it comes to talking about money.

Yes please enlighten me on how many are now not commuting vs how many are currently displaced. Like I said ATL is expanding and they will be back soon while the vast majority of your workforce got large raises the SW pilots got NOTHING. Once again please STFU as some did get screwed but the vast majority made out much better.

Oh and BTW it is done you need to move on. I guess just like PLC who has no life and comes back to threads that have nothing to do with him any more.

 

[freightdogfred]

Real easy base shrinks a little they got displaced and with only real senior AT people coming in they cannot get back.

So they were displaced due to base shrinkage. And then couldn't get back in due to more senior people bidding in. And these people were 100% Airtran. How many people are we talking here? Which base shrank, by how many, and when? I'm really curious.

 

[freightdogfred]

The fact that you are at a loss to see how anyone could have been displaced and cannot return to their base just shows how little you have been following what has been going on. Let me help you out on how those that are still waiting to get back to MCO got kicked out in the first place. Base shrinks a little they got displaced and with only real senior AT people coming in they cannot get back.

Enlighten me. Exactly how many were displaced? Cause I'll tell ya how many were displaced from Atlanta. About 1500. The fact they were displaced from MCO has nothing to do with Airtran guys, by your own admission it was normal seasonal base shrinkage. We're talking pretty junior guys I'm thinking, and a handful at best. It sucks to be junior, but they were the bottom of the heap with or without the integration and may or may not have gotten back even with no integration. By your angst over it I'm guessing you were one of them. The good news is that bakery near the airport in OAK sells really good sourdough bread.

 

[Oh-ryan]

I heard you still need the B737 type to get hired into ATL.

 

[freightdogfred]

I heard you still need the B737 type to get hired into ATL.

?????

They give em away free now, didn't you get the memo? Don't even need to be a lotto winner