SWA or DAL

[General Lee]

Isn't the junior equipment at DAL the 737?

Get the type at DAL and then go to SWA.

Nope, he will most likely get the MD88.

As far as choosing which airline to fly for, it is really all about options. If you want to fly 4-5 legs a day in one airplane type for the rest of your life, being paid well in the process, then choose SWA. If you want an airline that gives you options, like which type of flying you want to do (INTL vs Domestic), a choice of planes and pay scales, and eventual good pay (it will go up eventually), then pick DL. Do you want to be a corndog or a deltoid? SWA has great job security, and DL will get stronger and may merge---but probably for the better if we do. A combination DL/NW could be a solid airline for a long time. Job security and boredom (SWA) or options with a little risk(DAL). Take a pick.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I could not say it better myself General.
I do think that the picture of this industry will change in the next five years.
Cargo and SWA will no be as attractive as they are now.
I feel that all the majors will have to raise their rates to match SWA and FDX and UPS. If not they will have an attrition issue.

 

[General Lee]

I could not say it better myself General.
I do think that the picture of this industry will change in the next five years.
Cargo and SWA will no be as attractive as they are now.
I feel that all the majors will have to raise their rates to match SWA and FDX and UPS. If not they will have an attrition issue.

In the late 90's SWA captains were leaving for UAL, and they were promptly furloughed after 9-11. That type of flying is not for everyone. Yes, they do have very productive trips. Some of their 3 days are over 20 hours, which is great for a home life. We have INTL 3 days that are over 20 hours, and instead of Lubbuck or Islip, you are in Venice or Rome. The only thing with that is that it takes a while to get there, although NYC 767-300ER INTL might only take a couple years. Those NYC trips are great because they duty in late (4pm etc) and finish early in the afternoon (1-2pm)--but you may have to commute to JFK which can be tough. But, if you want to try something different, you could stay on the 738 in SLC and do transcons, or on the MD90 in SLC and do mainly west coast stuff. You could go junior and fly big equipment early on and make more money but be on reserve, or you could stay put on one plane and be senior for the schedule. Options.

I did talk to a friend at Southwest that said after the first few months he did not know if he could handle the pace of SWA (25 min turns and 5-6 legs a day most trips) for another 20 years. But, I have also seen friends get furloughed at DL. Even if we do merge in the future, I believe it will be a beneficial merger because as the last try showed, if one partner doesn't want it and has Congress on it's side, it probably won't happen. Only a real solid merger that would benefit both sides with minimal job loss would probably occur. It is good to have choices, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Heck I figured I fly with you and do the Caribbean turns out of ATL. It is where we live now. The wife is the one that wants to move back to TX not me. DAL has been a long term goal of mine, but some would say I am crazy not to go to SWA or one of the cargo companies.
I think that a merger may happen, but as you say, with minimal job loss. DAL will be a good place to work the question is will it be a great place again?

 

[General Lee]

Heck I figured I fly with you and do the Caribbean turns out of ATL. It is where we live now. The wife is the one that wants to move back to TX not me. DAL has been a long term goal of mine, but some would say I am crazy not to go to SWA or one of the cargo companies.
I think that a merger may happen, but as you say, with minimal job loss. DAL will be a good place to work the question is will it be a great place again?

I figure it can only get better than what is has been in the last 5 years. We had very low moral and times were tough. I would not wish BK on anyone. But, the USAir thing has rallied us a bit, hiring is commencing for stews and pilots, we are expanding with new airplanes and routes, and this is the beginning of a hiring wave. It is ALWAYS better to be hired in the beginning of a wave. There are always ups and downs, and it seems like every 1st or 2nd year of a new decade there seems to be a downturn, but that is expected. Before 9-11, we never had gone BK, and there was NEVER a furlough as big as we saw after 9-11, of 1310 pilots. That was ridiculous. We now have lower debt and are leaner and meaner. I think it can only get better, and the pay will be there again, although maybe not as high as it got. I still enjoy this job, and hope it does get better. It was fun before, and it will be fun again. Hey, if it got too much fun like SWA, you might be caught with your pants down in the cockpit, and your wife wouldn't like that !!!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Quite true.
I have never really wanted to go to SWA as weird as that sounds. I love the pilots and all, but hate the legs and the cattle care mentality. I do like the diversity that DAL has to offer. Now if they would open up the DFW base again all would be right in the world.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

General
Will new hires that are on the list get part of the 2.1B note when it is sold? I have heard that and was wondering if you could clear that up.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Just so you can make an educated decision base on facts.

I know of only 2 captains that left for other air carriers in the past 15 years at SWA.

Average day is about 4 legs/6.5 hours/7.2 TFP.

The company keeps its promises to employees and pays its bills ontime.

If you enjoy flying, you will not be bored.

If you never really wanted to be at SWA, it probably isn't for you.

A bird in the hand...

 

[hypersonic]

I have never really wanted to go to SWA as weird as that sounds. I love the pilots and all, but hate the legs and the cattle care mentality.

There is you answer! You wouldn't fit the profile anyway, empty the spot for someone who really likes the cattle care mentality

 

[FDJ2]

General
Will new hires that are on the list get part of the 2.1B note when it is sold?

Sorry, but no, you have to have been on the DAL system seniority list back on June 1, 2006.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Quite true.
I have never really wanted to go to SWA as weird as that sounds.

It doesn't sound wierd to me. The only reason they are at the top right now is because everyone else took concessions. Don't get me wrong, it's a good company, IMO, but before 9-11, I knew maybe 2 people tops who's #1 choice was SWA. Now all of a sudden, you have all these pilots saying "SWA is the only place I ever wanted to work".....yeah....uh huh....riiiiiight.

Heck, before 9-11, DAL was my first choice.

 

[General Lee]

General
Will new hires that are on the list get part of the 2.1B note when it is sold? I have heard that and was wondering if you could clear that up.

No. FDJ2 is correct.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Just so you can make an educated decision base on facts.

I know of only 2 captains that left for other air carriers in the past 15 years at SWA.

Average day is about 4 legs/6.5 hours/7.2 TFP.

The company keeps its promises to employees and pays its bills ontime.

If you enjoy flying, you will not be bored.

If you never really wanted to be at SWA, it probably isn't for you.

A bird in the hand...

You only know 2 captains, but many left prior to 9-11. Back then Southwest was not the best choice. Today it is a good choice because of the job security aspect. Back then people were fleeing Fedex too for legacy jobs. How times have changed. If you enjoy flying at Southwest, you will see a lot of it, I mean a lot of it. Just when you think you have had enough, like ALB to LAS nonstop (5.5 hours in a 737 cockpit), they then add a ABQ leg after it. You will fly close to 8 hour a day, whether you want to or not. But hey, that is productive, and why be away from home if you don't have too, unless you want to do turns (many out of ATL---on the 757, 738, and MD88), want to see the world (ex military types may have already seen the world, and ex regional types may want to), or fly something you can actually get up from your seat and do jumping jacks in the cockpit(757 and up). It's up to you, and there is a risk aspect when you go to a legacy, no doubt.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[na4life]

Whichever one you choose, let the other know you would have no problem finding at pinch hitter for their use. Just PM me and I'll be there.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

but six years ago SWA could not beg pilots to come there.

Not the case....6 years ago was 2001. SWA was on track to hire a record number of pilots that year until 9/11 slowed things up. I don't recall SWA having any empty seats on day 1 of New Hire Indoc.

Tejas