SWA or DAL?

[DDAY]

SWA is a great company. In 2007 2 squardron mates and myself were hired by both SWA and Delta in 2007. We all chose Delta because we saw Delta on the upswing. I currently fly the 757/767 and enjoy the variety of domestic and international flying. My buddies fly the 737 and 88. My family takes one big trip each year courtesy of Delta, the kids are spoiled cause they always go first class and they love it. The family has been to Rome, London, and South Africa so far. Life is good at Delta. Best of luck to you.

 

[Whodat]

How much time at home on average do the delta guys get a month?

 

[johnsonrod]

Blah, blah, blah...we get the fact you hate SWA. It's beginning to sound like a crappy, broken record. Nobody cares anymore.

The original poster cares, and he asked for opinions. And, I never said I hate Southwest, rather I said I wouldn't be applying there. I want more variety in flying. That is my opinion, which you readily discount.

 

[skywiz]

The absolute bottom line is be aggressive in trying to get interviews for both airlines, and then go where you get hired first. There is no point in doing these xxx vs. yyy type stuff.

Thanks for all the responses so far. Very helpful. I disagree somewhat with the above underlined point. Knowing which airline I have a preference for may make the decision whether I will try and get the 737 type rating. If I know that DAL will be my first choice, I may not want to go ahead and spend 7-9k on the type rating. The opposite is true if I want SWA as a first choice. Of course I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch though - I am never assuming I will be hired by either company. I am just trying to do my homework so I can make the best decision possible for myself and my family when the time comes if I am lucky enough to have the choice.

I am particularly interested in thoughts from any DAL MD88 drivers out of NYC/DTW as I have read is very junior and would think that would be a realistic first ac/base for a new hire. FYI, wife and I do desire to live on the east coast anywhere between Southern VA up to the NYC area. Not sure how commutable Norfolk/Richmond area is to NYC.

 

[GuppyWN]

Then I bet GUP would bid it with his Captain, Ty Webb. They would drink gallons of vodka, and "own" that town for all of the 14 hours there, before heading off to Busan, Taipei, Guangzhou, and finally Ho Chi Min later that day.

That actually sounds like fun...... except Ty will be the one jerking gear. I'm already senior to him so that aint gonna change.

I've got a couple mean vodka recipes and I'll bet security won't be too tight so ole Ty and I will be able to push on time on our way to round up a couple love us long times.

Right Ty?

Gup

 

[General Lee]

How much time at home on average do the delta guys get a month?

Like my pal Johnsonrod states, Delta has variety. That includes time away from home. A lot depends on seniority on the plane and which plane you are on. If you are junior and bid a widebody, you may be on reserve a long time, and your schedule is unknown. If you are junior, you may want to bid a narrowbody for the first few years to gain some better QOL, and then transition to the widebody for route variety.

Domestic schedules can vary from 1 day trips to 5 day trips. Commuters tend to like the 5 day trips because they can be worth close to 30 hours, and that means less commuting. People living in base tend to like 1 or 2 day trips, so they can be home more, and ready to pick up any greenslips (double pay on days off) if trips arise and the company needs help.

Certain fleet types have different trips too. Widebody schedules are different than domestic narrowbody. The 757/767, A330, and 744 fleets have trips up to 12 days long. That may sound brutal, but they are popular with commuters because of one commute each way, and if they do one of those 12 day trips (worth 80+ hours) at the beginning of the first month, and then one at the end of the next month, they can have over 30 days off in between. The 12 day trips on the 757/767 (out of almost all ER bases---ATL, MSP, DTW, SEA, LAX, NYC) mostly consist of a flight to the West Coast, then Asia via Hawaii or nonstop to Tokyo (NRT), Beijing, or Osaka, then bounce around Asia for 10 more days, before coming back to your base, sometimes with a deadhead. (often a day before scheduled because the last day has a layover and then a deadhead home) The flights around Asia are fairly easy, often with one leg from NRT to Saipan or Guam, and then 24 hours in a tropical hotel. The 744s and A330s have the same type of trips, but with longer legs. I saw a 744 trip that went DTW to NGO (Nagoya), over to Manila, over to NRT, over to HNL, back to NRT, over to LAX, back to NRT, and then back to DTW. Lots of legs, one of the layovers was over 48 hours (HNL I think), but very productive and then lots of days off when home.

Sure, those trips can be hard on your body via timezones, and if you feel tired all of the time, you can bid off the equipment any time you want (after 2 year seat hold is over). But, I have met guys who absolutely love it, and will never bid off until they can hold Captain on the same type of equipment. You see plenty older FOs flying those A330s and 744s because they just love that lifestyle. Higher pay and lots of consequtive days off.

So, if you are new, you may want to fly narrowbodies domestically for awhile and become a lineholder sooner. That will help with your quality of life. If you need to be on a widebody ASAP, then expect to be on reserve. I think the days off are 11 minimum in a 30 day month, and 12 in a 31 day month. I haven't been on reserve in awhile, but I think that is right. You can choose the INTL lifestyle, and if you like it, great. If you don't, then go back to domestic. There are different fleets to choose from, and plenty of bases.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

The original poster cares, and he asked for opinions. And, I never said I hate Southwest, rather I said I wouldn't be applying there. I want more variety in flying. That is my opinion, which you readily discount.

Rod,

He hates your enthusiasm. You sound motivated and know what you want, and some on here are mad at their own decisions in life. Stay positive.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CaptainKiwi]

Less mainline seats equals less mainline jobs...just sayin'


From Atlanta Business Chronical...

Delta Airlines posted its first profit in years in 2010, and now it looks to reduce the size of its fleet, tackle its debt and fight fuel costs in 2011 through fare hikes and other methods.
That will be the message from Delta President Ed Bastian, who is scheduled to make a presentation to the Raymond James Global Airline Conference on Feb. 3. The presentation was pre-filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Bastian will say the Atlanta-based airline is set to reduce debt by $7 billion over a three-year period. It also plans to battle the spike in fuel costs through revenue, capacity and fleet efficiency. This will include cutting more than 250 small domestic aircraft such as turboprops, 50-seat jets and DC9s; adding 100 newer MD90s and two-class regionals.
Delta’s fleet in December 2007 totaled 1,482 : 693 regional aircraft, 169 international and 620 domestic mainline. As of December 2011, it projects a fleet of 1,318: 600 regional aircraft, 179 international and 539 domestic mainline.
With jet fuel prices jumping some 20 percent to $2.75 a gallon in just the last 100 days, Bastian will say Delta can fight those costs by accelerating the retirement of aircraft; raising domestic fares and tacking on international fuel surcharges; trimming capacity; and cutting capital spending to keep free cash flow at $1.8 billion.


Read more: Delta to accelerate fleet size cuts, raise fares | Atlanta Business Chronicle

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

How much time at home on average do the delta guys get a month?

Spent most of my time there on rsv... the past 3 months my category has been very short so I've flown most days on reserve and averaged 13-14 days at home.

Prior to that I would usually work about 8-14 days a month flying on reserve. There were stretches 2 sept-oct's in a row where I didn't touch an airplane for 3.5 weeks (held weekends off... all the open time was on the weekends). Now I'm paying for that now apparently, but it's sure as heck helping the bank account.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Less mainline seats equals less mainline jobs...just sayin'


From Atlanta Business Chronical...

Delta Airlines posted its first profit in years in 2010, and now it looks to reduce the size of its fleet, tackle its debt and fight fuel costs in 2011 through fare hikes and other methods.
That will be the message from Delta President Ed Bastian, who is scheduled to make a presentation to the Raymond James Global Airline Conference on Feb. 3. The presentation was pre-filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Bastian will say the Atlanta-based airline is set to reduce debt by $7 billion over a three-year period. It also plans to battle the spike in fuel costs through revenue, capacity and fleet efficiency. This will include cutting more than 250 small domestic aircraft such as turboprops, 50-seat jets and DC9s; adding 100 newer MD90s and two-class regionals.
Delta’s fleet in December 2007 totaled 1,482 : 693 regional aircraft, 169 international and 620 domestic mainline. As of December 2011, it projects a fleet of 1,318: 600 regional aircraft, 179 international and 539 domestic mainline.
With jet fuel prices jumping some 20 percent to $2.75 a gallon in just the last 100 days, Bastian will say Delta can fight those costs by accelerating the retirement of aircraft; raising domestic fares and tacking on international fuel surcharges; trimming capacity; and cutting capital spending to keep free cash flow at $1.8 billion.


Read more: Delta to accelerate fleet size cuts, raise fares | Atlanta Business Chronicle

Heaven knows the press never "F's" things up. This is bad information. This is actually off of 2007 data.
Some of the aircraft they're talking about are already parked.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Less mainline seats equals less mainline jobs...just sayin'


From Atlanta Business Chronical...

Delta Airlines posted its first profit in years in 2010, and now it looks to reduce the size of its fleet, tackle its debt and fight fuel costs in 2011 through fare hikes and other methods.
That will be the message from Delta President Ed Bastian, who is scheduled to make a presentation to the Raymond James Global Airline Conference on Feb. 3. The presentation was pre-filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Bastian will say the Atlanta-based airline is set to reduce debt by $7 billion over a three-year period. It also plans to battle the spike in fuel costs through revenue, capacity and fleet efficiency. This will include cutting more than 250 small domestic aircraft such as turboprops, 50-seat jets and DC9s; adding 100 newer MD90s and two-class regionals.
Delta’s fleet in December 2007 totaled 1,482 : 693 regional aircraft, 169 international and 620 domestic mainline. As of December 2011, it projects a fleet of 1,318: 600 regional aircraft, 179 international and 539 domestic mainline.
With jet fuel prices jumping some 20 percent to $2.75 a gallon in just the last 100 days, Bastian will say Delta can fight those costs by accelerating the retirement of aircraft; raising domestic fares and tacking on international fuel surcharges; trimming capacity; and cutting capital spending to keep free cash flow at $1.8 billion.


Read more: Delta to accelerate fleet size cuts, raise fares | Atlanta Business Chronicle

Notice the time frame of the comparison. It's what the shareholders want to hear. They are comparing to when both fleets were their largest anytime post bk which was in 2007. We cut capacity dramatically during the economic implosion (avoided furloughing a single pilot, too). The only planes left to cut from that list are the DC-9-50s, and we've got more MD-90's coming than there are 9-50's.

The thing that sucks is that there is no mainline replacement for the -30's and 40's that have already been parked. It's no secret, however ugly, that the E170's and 175s and jumbo CRJs are their replacements.

 

[johnsonrod]

Notice the time frame of the comparison. It's what the shareholders want to hear. They are comparing to when both fleets were their largest anytime post bk which was in 2007. We cut capacity dramatically during the economic implosion (avoided furloughing a single pilot, too). The only planes left to cut from that list are the DC-9-50s, and we've got more MD-90's coming than there are 9-50's.

The thing that sucks is that there is no mainline replacement for the -30's and 40's that have already been parked. It's no secret, however ugly, that the E170's and 175s and jumbo CRJs are their replacements.

There are replacements for the DC9-30, the 717 and C-series. So far you haven't heard much about them for Delta, but that could change. You guys still have a limit on 70 and 76 seaters, which is good. I don't see you guys changing that, hopefully.

 

[General Lee]

Less mainline seats equals less mainline jobs...just sayin'


From Atlanta Business Chronical...

Delta Airlines posted its first profit in years in 2010, and now it looks to reduce the size of its fleet, tackle its debt and fight fuel costs in 2011 through fare hikes and other methods.
That will be the message from Delta President Ed Bastian, who is scheduled to make a presentation to the Raymond James Global Airline Conference on Feb. 3. The presentation was pre-filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Bastian will say the Atlanta-based airline is set to reduce debt by $7 billion over a three-year period. It also plans to battle the spike in fuel costs through revenue, capacity and fleet efficiency. This will include cutting more than 250 small domestic aircraft such as turboprops, 50-seat jets and DC9s; adding 100 newer MD90s and two-class regionals.
Delta’s fleet in December 2007 totaled 1,482 : 693 regional aircraft, 169 international and 620 domestic mainline. As of December 2011, it projects a fleet of 1,318: 600 regional aircraft, 179 international and 539 domestic mainline.
With jet fuel prices jumping some 20 percent to $2.75 a gallon in just the last 100 days, Bastian will say Delta can fight those costs by accelerating the retirement of aircraft; raising domestic fares and tacking on international fuel surcharges; trimming capacity; and cutting capital spending to keep free cash flow at $1.8 billion.


Read more: Delta to accelerate fleet size cuts, raise fares | Atlanta Business Chronicle

Remember, this states from 2007, not as of today. And, DC9s may be leaving, but MD90s are coming. Also, certian planes require more pilots. One size plane doesn't equal another. If you get 10 777s, that equals 40 DC9s in terms of pilots. Flights over 8 hours require 3 pilots, and flights over 12 hours require 4. ATL to Johanesburg is easily over 12 hours.

The recent announcement stated that the Regionals would dump 60 smaller RJs, get up to 20 of the larger ones (up to a limit that was already known), and dump older DC9s to be replaced with MD90s.

I think you are wrong. Just sayin..... and more scheduled retirements means more new jobs and less stagnation (SWA). Just sayin.....



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

There are replacements for the DC9-30, the 717 and C-series. So far you haven't heard much about them for Delta, but that could change. You guys still have a limit on 70 and 76 seaters, which is good. I don't see you guys changing that, hopefully.

We won't. I have heard stuff about the 717s, and maybe looking at the C-Series. I personally like the E195, and we have payrates for those.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Crash Pad]

Hey Jrod, let the people who actually work at both answer these questions. Not your biased hopes and dreams. Like someone said, go clean a pool or mow a lawn in Peachtree City to grab your LOR.

 

[Jetdriver69]

Although I'm not an airline guy, I love it when I hear "I want to see the world". Well it ain't that fun most of the time. Do you really want to see 12+30 and 5800nm to go on the FMS? I love going places, its the getting there that is a pain.

 

[say again]

Rod,

He hates your enthusiasm. You sound motivated and know what you want, and some on here are mad at their own decisions in life. Stay positive.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Ah, but that is where you are completely wrong. Nice try though.

 

[Bill Nelson]

We won't. I have heard stuff about the 717s, and maybe looking at the C-Series. I personally like the E195, and we have payrates for those

We have been hearing the same at SWA and I just read a quote from Gary Kelly stating that he has been approached about selling the ATN 717's. Where there is smoke there is fire. I'd bet you get around 86 717's plus crews this summer.

 

[Whodat]

Like my pal Johnsonrod states, Delta has variety. That includes time away from home. A lot depends on seniority on the plane and which plane you are on. If you are junior and bid a widebody, you may be on reserve a long time, and your schedule is unknown. If you are junior, you may want to bid a narrowbody for the first few years to gain some better QOL, and then transition to the widebody for route variety.

Domestic schedules can vary from 1 day trips to 5 day trips. Commuters tend to like the 5 day trips because they can be worth close to 30 hours, and that means less commuting. People living in base tend to like 1 or 2 day trips, so they can be home more, and ready to pick up any greenslips (double pay on days off) if trips arise and the company needs help.

Certain fleet types have different trips too. Widebody schedules are different than domestic narrowbody. The 757/767, A330, and 744 fleets have trips up to 12 days long. That may sound brutal, but they are popular with commuters because of one commute each way, and if they do one of those 12 day trips (worth 80+ hours) at the beginning of the first month, and then one at the end of the next month, they can have over 30 days off in between. The 12 day trips on the 757/767 (out of almost all ER bases---ATL, MSP, DTW, SEA, LAX, NYC) mostly consist of a flight to the West Coast, then Asia via Hawaii or nonstop to Tokyo (NRT), Beijing, or Osaka, then bounce around Asia for 10 more days, before coming back to your base, sometimes with a deadhead. (often a day before scheduled because the last day has a layover and then a deadhead home) The flights around Asia are fairly easy, often with one leg from NRT to Saipan or Guam, and then 24 hours in a tropical hotel. The 744s and A330s have the same type of trips, but with longer legs. I saw a 744 trip that went DTW to NGO (Nagoya), over to Manila, over to NRT, over to HNL, back to NRT, over to LAX, back to NRT, and then back to DTW. Lots of legs, one of the layovers was over 48 hours (HNL I think), but very productive and then lots of days off when home.

Sure, those trips can be hard on your body via timezones, and if you feel tired all of the time, you can bid off the equipment any time you want (after 2 year seat hold is over). But, I have met guys who absolutely love it, and will never bid off until they can hold Captain on the same type of equipment. You see plenty older FOs flying those A330s and 744s because they just love that lifestyle. Higher pay and lots of consequtive days off.

So, if you are new, you may want to fly narrowbodies domestically for awhile and become a lineholder sooner. That will help with your quality of life. If you need to be on a widebody ASAP, then expect to be on reserve. I think the days off are 11 minimum in a 30 day month, and 12 in a 31 day month. I haven't been on reserve in awhile, but I think that is right. You can choose the INTL lifestyle, and if you like it, great. If you don't, then go back to domestic. There are different fleets to choose from, and plenty of bases.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Thanks for the info General. I'm most interested in quality of life and time at home at this point in my life. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but Southwest is 15 days off on reserve and line holders average 18 days off?

 

[AirMorgan]

Here is what I did: I compiled a list of all the airlines (pax & cargo) that I thought I'd like to fly for (approximately 15). I then analyzed the things that mattered most to me (QOL, bases, pay, culture, etc) and found that there were only 3 airlines I was willing to leave my current job for. They were (in no particular order) DAL, FedEx, and SWA. I applied to all three and told myself I'd take the first offer and never look back.

DAL was the first to offer me a job so that's where I landed. I felt great about the decision and never second guessed myself. I'm still very happy where I am. However, had SWA called first, I'd be there...with no regrets. I think they are both great companies with their own strengths and weaknesses (no place is perfect). Bottom line--if you get the call from either of these companies...just be grateful.