SWA New Work Rules?

[DH2WN]

This is not an SWA pilot. Do not repond.

Are you saying people don't do the things he stated. I flew with a Captain who is going to make $350k this year. He does work a lot! But he "works the system". Take it how you want it but when I say "loopholes" I mean spirit of the contract. When I do something I always ask myself what was the spirit of the contract before I act. I am constantly barraged with phone calls from pilots who "have a deal for me." I just say no thanks until I'm off probation. I've locked my line because I don't want a "deal." One guy even spent a half hour explaining how you can make bank on reserve and only work 75% of your reserve days. I don't think these things are the spirit of the contract.

I don't know about the things 7S3W7A claims but the spirit of the contract is what is most important for us to continue with the give and take I previously stated. At my former ALPA carrier people carried their contract around like a priest with a bible. Constantly quoting it verbatim. Arguments over it with scheduling were commonplace each day. Do we want that? I hope not but the company will have no choice but to tighten the language if they have to pay out more than what is in the spirit of the contract.

 

[canyonblue]

At my former ALPA carrier people carried their contract around like a priest with a bible. Constantly quoting it verbatim. Arguments over it with scheduling were commonplace each day.

Two words, Lynn Rapp.

 

[aa73]

Two words, Lynn Rapp.

Holy cow, two ex-Blue Ridgers post in a row! Glad to see you guys were able to jump ship!

aa73
Proud ex Blue Ridger

 

[canyonblue]

Glad to see you guys were able to jump ship!

aa73
Proud ex Blue Ridger

I suspect Kerry Skeen and Tom Moore will put on dresses and head for the lifeboats.

 

[SWAdude]

Are you saying people don't do the things he stated. I flew with a Captain who is going to make $350k this year. He does work a lot! But he "works the system". Take it how you want it but when I say "loopholes" I mean spirit of the contract. When I do something I always ask myself what was the spirit of the contract before I act. I am constantly barraged with phone calls from pilots who "have a deal for me." I just say no thanks until I'm off probation. I've locked my line because I don't want a "deal." One guy even spent a half hour explaining how you can make bank on reserve and only work 75% of your reserve days. I don't think these things are the spirit of the contract.

I don't know about the things 7S3W7A claims but the spirit of the contract is what is most important for us to continue with the give and take I previously stated. At my former ALPA carrier people carried their contract around like a priest with a bible. Constantly quoting it verbatim. Arguments over it with scheduling were commonplace each day. Do we want that? I hope not but the company will have no choice but to tighten the language if they have to pay out more than what is in the spirit of the contract.

I believe what TAZ MAN is saying is that there is some credibility issues with this poster. I challenged 7S3W7A to confirming his claim to work for SWA and he couldn't answer a simple question that only our pilots could have access to.

 

[T1bubba]

Are you saying people don't do the things he stated. I flew with a Captain who is going to make $350k this year. He does work a lot! But he "works the system". Take it how you want it but when I say "loopholes" I mean spirit of the contract. When I do something I always ask myself what was the spirit of the contract before I act. I am constantly barraged with phone calls from pilots who "have a deal for me." I just say no thanks until I'm off probation. I've locked my line because I don't want a "deal." One guy even spent a half hour explaining how you can make bank on reserve and only work 75% of your reserve days. I don't think these things are the spirit of the contract.

I think most of the "loopholes" you are referring to are simply incentives to get people to work on their days off. The company has agreed that reserves exist to put out fires, not to be used to cover flying that slips through DOT and EF. That's why they agreed to let anyone take a reserve's trip, it frees up a reserve to cover a sick call or other last-minute change without paying time and a half.

The guys that are making 150 trips a month are doing exactly what management wants. They may be working the system but they're also blocking 90+ hours a month most months and keeping the rest of us from getting JA'd.

The way I see it I don't mind taking advantage of a good deal when it comes around- I know that there are enough bad deals coming my way to even it out in the long run.

 

[DH2WN]

I think most of the "loopholes" you are referring to are simply incentives to get people to work on their days off. The company has agreed that reserves exist to put out fires, not to be used to cover flying that slips through DOT and EF. That's why they agreed to let anyone take a reserve's trip, it frees up a reserve to cover a sick call or other last-minute change without paying time and a half.

The guys that are making 150 trips a month are doing exactly what management wants. They may be working the system but they're also blocking 90+ hours a month most months and keeping the rest of us from getting JA'd.

The way I see it I don't mind taking advantage of a good deal when it comes around- I know that there are enough bad deals coming my way to even it out in the long run.

It may be what management wants. I don't know. I assumed no but I'm still a probie so I don't know. It just seems sketchy. I believe the company and us would benefit more if we flew our line and picked up some open time along the way. In class we had a day where a line pilot came in and taught us how to get through the first year. In it he went on and on about how to make more money and fly the same. I wish I could quote it. I didn't think much about it because I had enough to deal with. After being on line I notice some pilots do those things. Again, I am all for a good days pay for a good days work but to make twice what you should and work less is, to me, abusive of the spirit of the contract.

All my opinion, of course. I think it'll be interesting to see what comes out of this contract given it's so old of a document.
Being low man on the totum poll I just hope I have a job in the next few years.

 

[aa73]

I suspect Kerry Skeen and Tom Moore will put on dresses and head for the lifeboats.

You mean yachts, right? :uzi:

 

[canyonblue]

Amen brother, let me help ya shoot....:uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi:

 

[Slug]

Gaming the system does occur, but like Bubba said the company is looking for that. They know that a greedy 5% of the pilots will make a killing, but fill in the gaps. The company would rather have that, than 20% reserve coverage and an extra pilot per airframe. The cost savings alone in healthcare is worth it. I'm late in my third year and the gaming the system is not as prevalent as it is made out to be. I haven't flown with a CP in over a year that was tripping out above 110 on a regular basis.


Slug

edit added: Thanks SWA/FO, 110 trips per month for pay in our convoluted pay scale (which I like) is somewhere around 85-95 block hours per month.

 

[SWA/FO]

Thats 110 trips for pay, guys.......not 110000 dollars.

 

[Tripower455]

Well, The Jan. lines are out.

Some of us have definitely taken a QOL hit, with little to show for it.

The guys that wanted to have an "extra" day put in their line got 4 extra days. But at least they'll get paid for 2 of those days!

IMHO, the company will lose as well, as now they are tying up a lot of guys with these unproductive, difficult to rearrange/give away lines, that would otherwise pick up on their days off.

We'll see......

 

[TexaSWA]

Well, The Jan. lines are out.

Some of us have definitely taken a QOL hit, with little to show for it.

The guys that wanted to have an "extra" day put in their line got 4 extra days. But at least they'll get paid for 2 of those days!

IMHO, the company will lose as well, as now they are tying up a lot of guys with these unproductive, difficult to rearrange/give away lines, that would otherwise pick up on their days off.

We'll see......

How do you figure there are days we are not getting paid for?

I looked and was unable to find any lines that worked more than 15 days in January. Could be 18 for the whole line but that includes 3 days in Feb, which go to Feb totals. Maybe im not looking at it right.

 

[Tripower455]

How do you figure there are days we are not getting paid for?

I looked and was unable to find any lines that worked more than 15 days in January. Could be 18 for the whole line but that includes 3 days in Feb, which go to Feb totals. Maybe im not looking at it right.

In MCO, there are numerous 16 day lines in Jan with 4, 4 days that pay 104 with no overlap.

There used to be a ton of 12 day lines that paid around 90. Now, the junior guys get to work an extra 4 days to reap an 14ish extra tfp, which = approximately 2 extra days of pay. Who's gonna want to work those lines?

FWIW, before we let them restrict ELITT, I was able to turn a 90 ish, 12 day line into over 100 tfp, with one extra day on average, leaving me more days off to pickup, if I were so inclined. I am sitting in the bottom 30% of my domicile....

BTW< I am ALL for productivity..... I just can't see how this side letter works to either party's advantage. Working more days for the same pay seems like we're going backwards......

 

[F16TJ]

Just my uninformed opinion, but I have a feeling that this side letter vote is the reason we're not hearing anything regarding new hire classes for January. The anticipation is starting to make me suspicious of everything and it could be the reason everyone is looking at me. I think I'll go and sit on a grassy knoll and wait for a flying saucer to come and get me to take me to a Jim Morrison concert!:laugh:

 

[SWA/FO]

I thought the MDW lines are good. Maybe you need to go to a real base?

 

[Tripower455]

I thought the MDW lines are good. Maybe you need to go to a real base?

No thanks! I spent 4 winters commuting there until MCO opened, and never looked back!

The lines have to get a LOT worse for me to do that again!