SWA letters of "Thanks but no thanks, see ya next year.

p3hawk

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For those of you, like me , who have previously interviewed with SouthWest and did not make the DB cut, I talked with Kim today at the PD concerning when I should start reapplying. Whether after or before the year was up. She said start renewing online apps asap, when your at the one year mark of your past interview call her or Linsey, or Ryan or the PD ingeneral, and they will shift your name and quals back into the interview pool. Hopefully to be called again.

Hope this helps someone who might have gotten "the letter" in stead of the call.
P3Hawk.
 

AnimalTale

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The SWA interview process is begining to feel and look like UAL's back in the heyday...

I guess they want to see how bad u want the job. U where not good enough the first round, but maybe one year of "learning" how to "ACT" and BS better and Ki$$ A$$ you will get the job.

I hate these games. DO NOT INTERVIEW PEOPLE, if u are not going to hire them. I am sure u guys had plenty of time and recs. I am also sure u guys where good pilots . U had your type too. I dont get what a year is going to do.


Good Luck\
Cya
 

OffHot

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Animal Tail, so everyone that frontier has interviewed they have hired? We are using the same model, except for the loi, that we have used over the past years, except now we have a heck of a lot more applications then in the past. So excuse us if we attempt to interview all that are qualified and give everyone an equal chance if they are. Not everyone is going to make it. I don't know of an airline where they do. It is obvious that you don't wish to work for SWA and that is fine, it is not the place for everyone.
 

capt. megadeth

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AnimalTale said:
The SWA interview process is begining to feel and look like UAL's back in the heyday...

I guess they want to see how bad u want the job. U where not good enough the first round, but maybe one year of "learning" how to "ACT" and BS better and Ki$$ A$$ you will get the job.

I hate these games. DO NOT INTERVIEW PEOPLE, if u are not going to hire them. I am sure u guys had plenty of time and recs. I am also sure u guys where good pilots . U had your type too. I dont get what a year is going to do.
I have been asking the same thing but the Stepford Wives on here get all bent out of shape.
 

jetalc

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AnimalTale said:
The SWA interview process is begining to feel and look like UAL's back in the heyday...

I guess they want to see how bad u want the job. U where not good enough the first round, but maybe one year of "learning" how to "ACT" and BS better and Ki$$ A$$ you will get the job.

I hate these games. DO NOT INTERVIEW PEOPLE, if u are not going to hire them. I am sure u guys had plenty of time and recs. I am also sure u guys where good pilots . U had your type too. I dont get what a year is going to do.


Good Luck\
Cya
Gotta agree with AnimalTale on this one - the proportion of great people who have been turned down (get over yourself, those that have been hired - you're not that much stellar, if at all, than some of the people who have not been successful) to those who have been hired is too large. You guys might be protective of your interview process, especially because you might feel rather "elite" having been hired, however, there is simply no rhyme or reason that some of the great guys haven't been hired that I know who have interviewed. I have no desire to work for SWA, largely because I do take a lot of pride in the quality of the product of my airline. Go ahead - flame away, ye SWA worshipers, but that won't change my mind. No, I'm not bitter, I just feel that working for the (albeit profitable) K-Mart of the sky doesn't float my boat. I know a lot of great people who have been hired, and I'm very happy that they're fulfilled with their company - it is a company that has pretty much taken this industry by storm - but it's certainly not for me.

It seems SWA has lost a lot of respect due to their current hiring (aka, not-hiring) practices, and are leaving a lot of good souls behind. So far as hiring EVERYBODY who interviews? Of course not - somebody might look great on paper and be a total tool in person. In fact, they shouldn't have to be a TOTAL tool to get turned down - they should be driven, personable, competent, etc., etc., but many people who are being turned down are exactly the former. The "elitist attitude" that SWA seems to have taken on seems totally contradictory to its basic movement of providing air travel to the "common man" and emulates UAL almost to the "t." Has SWA forgotten its rather humble beginnings? A shame that getting large turns good companies like SWA into total tools. They should fire themselves. OK, now I'm ranting.
 

SWAnnabee

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OffHot said:
Animal Tail, so everyone that frontier has interviewed they have hired? We are using the same model, except for the loi, that we have used over the past years, except now we have a heck of a lot more applications then in the past. So excuse us if we attempt to interview all that are qualified and give everyone an equal chance if they are. Not everyone is going to make it. I don't know of an airline where they do. It is obvious that you don't wish to work for SWA and that is fine, it is not the place for everyone.
The above comment comparing SWA to UAL seems to have some merit. Nice attitude, OffHot. I guess you are an example of the "new" SWA pilot.

I too interviewed and got the dreaded letter.

I still believe SWA is one of the few great companies in the US and, currently......the best airline in the US as far as security, pay, and QOL is concerned.

I do NOT agree, however, with SWA's interview model. Sure, everyone was pleasant. Very friendly. Very professional. I saw very little in the way of "head games", but the TMAAT questions and HR involvement I have issues with. That being said, with hiring rates of 1 in 5 interviewed, saying things like "The job is yours to loose" and "We are ready to hire all of you being interviewed" is total BS.

I went on to getting hired by a major aerospace corporation and THAT interview process was truly up front and what I expect from a professional business. My resume told them all they needed to know about my qualifications for the job and all they wanted to see was if I was a good fit. They DID NOT have 50 guys all waiting for the same job. They only interviewed 2, myself included, and hired the one they wanted.

I have seen too many really great guys get the letter from SWA who would have been perfect fits, much better than others I have seen get hired.:rolleyes:

If you have the quals to get called to the interview, barring some MAJOR f-up or serious black mark in your past (ie criminal record, falsifying documents, etc) then the hiring rate should be more like 3-4 out of 5 interviewed gets hired. Otherwise, SWA HR is wasting a lot of folks time, money, and energy.

JMHO. Congrats to all those who got to their dream and my honest best wishes for, and good luck to, Southwest Airlines, but I think the HR and DB folks, based on what I saw and have seen and heard since, are taking themselves a little too seriously.

No rant, not bitter, very happy where I landed. Just my personal opinion.
 
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scoreboard

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48.3 Hours

Elapsed time since last post on this forum went sour on SWA.

You guys kill me.

Nobody applies without knowing the chances, costs, risks, and rewards.

Don't interview unless we hire everyone/majority of everyone? YGBSM.

So we should never let the off chance low time great kid who interviews well to be interviewed/hired? We should only hire the highest time, first in line, been on the list the longest? Hardly.

We have our ways, they have worked for 30 plus years, don't like it, don't apply.

The HR hiring process has been an evolving process for all companies, litigation being the primary driver for change I'm sure.

And, best of luck, this place is not for everyone, hope you find yours. Cheers.
 

G100driver

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AnimalTale said:
The SWA interview process is begining to feel and look like UAL's back in the heyday..
Cya
At lease in the heyday UAL was not a PFT airline. Yea yea I know SWA is great place to work though.
 

OffHot

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Bozt45, actually I'm not a "new" SWA pilot. What attitude? If you don't want to work here then apply somewhere else. That is true in any business, not just the airlines. Like jetalc said, he enjoys where he works, fine what is wrong with that. What SWA pilot is saying your wrong not to work for us? You also don't have to agree with our interview model, but it does work (most of the time). Not every pilot wants to work for SWA, and not every pilot is what SWA, JetBlue, AirTran, etc wants. That is why they interview. We have a positive attitude, as those who do get hired would agree, but some, like you, say we are playing head games. Bozt45 how many airlines have you worked for, and how many airline interviews have you had? Are we that different? Animaltale, how many UA interviews have you had to make your statement. Seen them both, they are not alike. UA was looking for something and interviewed to get it, so does SWA, JetBlue, Airtran, etc. We will miss good people, there is no doubt, that is why we ask that you apply again, so maybe we don't make the same mistake twice. The interview process is not perfect, but it has worked well for us for may years.
 

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So did you...

G100driver said:
At lease in the heyday UAL was not a PFT airline. Yea yea I know SWA is great place to work though.
Did you pay for your private? Commercial? Instrument?

CFI/II?

G100, you PFT'd. That horse, it died years ago.
 

SlapShot

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To require a type rating just to get an interview is a little excessive in my opinion. I understand that Southwest hires a personality type. That is an excellent way to staff any company. However why does EVERY personality type have to shell out $6,000 for a 737 type rating just to get an interview? If a type rating is required for the job, then hire someone with the understanding that they need to get the type prior to starting ground school or give them a time frame in which they need to have the type rating by and then put them in the pool for a class date.

I would love to work for SWA but I do not have a spare $6,000 dollars to give to Higher Power or any other sim center just to get an interview where I have a 20% chance of getting the job. I do not like those odds. Batting .200 for a career in baseball will not get you in the Hall of Fame.
 

:-)

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scoreboard said:
We have our ways, they have worked for 30 plus years, don't like it, don't apply.

Lately, these SWA interview threads are starting to look like the old PFT threads. As soon as one is finished, another one starts :)

Now for my standard contribution. The method you use now, is NOT the method that worked for thirty years. My contacts have most all been there for fifteen years. They were not hired by an HR person asking them a trick question that's trying to determine some ellusive personality "type". Protest if you want, but any compotent and trained psycologist could determing your personality type by asking any series of questions. SWA uses aviation themed questions in order to fool the pilots into thinking that aviation has something to do with the process.

Yes, scoreboard, I know the score. I'm still trying to get an interview and I don't hold it against the company or the line crews because the PD is getting too much into psyco-babble. I just wish that they would be consistent. As I (and others) have posted in the recent past, either the system works or it doesn't. If the allow a "do-over", they are only admitting that their system is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Do they not realize that admitting a mistake in failure to hire is also admitting a mistake in someone that they DID hire. Think about it.

Calvin the Great
 

G100driver

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scoreboard said:
Did you pay for your private? Commercial? Instrument?

CFI/II?

G100, you PFT'd. That horse, it died years ago.
Yes you got me ..... I spent my own money on my education. I did not suck on the government teet.
 

capt. megadeth

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G100driver said:
Yes you got me ..... I spent my own money on my education. I did not suck on the government teet.
What's wrong with the gov't paying for a person's education? I mean, they give losers money all the time. I would rather my taxes go to someone that will actually give back to society than someone who will just mooch more and keep the vicious cycle of government enablement going.
 

K-Mart

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I don't believe the hardest part is getting the type. Most people can swing that. Knowing people and getting a bunch of PIC is probably the limiting factor. Any thoughts??
 

AlbieF15

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Warning...std Albie long post

Getting hired by SWA is a crapshoot. Like it or hate it, just as the FDX interview has a written test, Delta used to have a shrink, SWA has its own little quirks.

I think all of us will agree 95% of the guys/gals hired are great folks. The pain is that odds are most of the folks rejected are too. Any military primary instructor (UPT) will tell you that you forget the hundreds of students hwo you trained to get their wings, but your student that didn't get through haunts you for a long time. Coaching is the same way...most of my clients make it but I have had several GREAT guys/gals not get hired at SWA. Additionally, the folks who have come to me AFTER not getting hired there to get ready for other interviews included some pretty good people.

The venting I see here is perfectly natural, and I have done it too. Whenever my wife enters a beauty contest (about every 2 years on average) I want to go out and kick all the judges a$$es when she doesn't win. She is obviously the prettiest, smartest, and most complete woman on the stage. I'm not mad at the other contestants, but the JUDGES who obviously missed the point. However, my wife reminds me that she LIKES doing these things, and that on any given day each of the 5 judges will pick a different winner. In a contest like that, only 1 can win. She enters for the thrill of competition and the motivation it provides to be fit, dress well, and maintain a positive spirit. Despite the sterotypes of catty women, she has met a lot of very successful women in the circuits and many have become some of her closest friends.

Although the odds are better in a SWA interview, we seem to be seeing that about 2-4 out of 10 can win. So the question is simply "am I willing to accept an 60-80% chance of rejection to subject myself to this stress..." Now you must do a risk/reward tradeoff. If you accept that applying to SWA may be a 2 or 3 step process taking 3 years, then perhaps the process won't seem so daunting. You can also help your odds by getting the type (almost 100% requirement), getting an interview prep with one of the many folks who specialize in SWA prep, and networking like a madman. However, interviewing is an imperfect science and you are still down to sharing your life with 3 strangers for 45 minutes a pop. I've said this before...I have a good track record at SWA but d&mmit some of the folks who didn't make it were great people too. So...how do you deal with that? Here are a few options I've seen:

First...don't get blinders on. SWA has a great culture. So does Jetblue. If you don't think FedEx or UPS or Continetal have a great cuture, apply there, get hired, and be part of the solution. Don't just try to join the "in" crowd...create your own successful clique. If you are such a great pilot and leader, maybe you can exert your influence somewhere else to make it a more "SWA-like" organization.

Second...trust you faith. Perhaps you ain't meant to be at SWA. I was pretty PO'd when Delta, my dream job, quit hiring in June 01. However, my experience at interviewing at other carriers led to a successful business, and I'm not that far from holding 727 captain at FDX--already a great company but even more so in the post 9/11 world. Somebody had a plan for me that didn't include my original plan, and I am greatful. I've had several clients not get on at SWA who got on at UPS or JetBlue. Another missed FDX but is now at SWA. Yet another missed out on FDX but got offers at CAL and SWA. Although I don't know her and cannot speak for her, Capt Megadeath's experience is not that atypical. Not getting hired at SWA means you just got a free shot to try something completely different...and you might fine your "second" choice is ultimately a much better fit for your life.

Third...get a thick skin. 50-80% failure rates mean a heck of a lot of good folks didn't get hired either. You aren't a pariah if you SWA passed on you. The sting will fade, and you will move on. I heard United once passed on a Space Shuttle astronaut, so better pilots than any of us have been rejected. Its a tough industry with no perfect companies, so we cannot expect a perfect process.

God bless everyone in this tough industry. Although I get a little heartbroken at many of the rejections I hear about, I have seen enough people bounce back into much better situations--many times just days or weeks after the original rejection. So--keep your chin up and your eyes open. You only run out of opportunities when you quit breathing.
 
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TexaSWA

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capt. megadeth said:
I have been asking the same thing but the Stepford Wives on here get all bent out of shape.
I bet you look HOT in those brown pants pretty little lady. I think you need a spanking.
 
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Wrong.

SlapShot said:
To require a type rating just to get an interview is a little excessive in my opinion. I understand that Southwest hires a personality type. That is an excellent way to staff any company. However why does EVERY personality type have to shell out $6,000 for a 737 type rating just to get an interview? If a type rating is required for the job, then hire someone with the understanding that they need to get the type prior to starting ground school or give them a time frame in which they need to have the type rating by and then put them in the pool for a class date.

I would love to work for SWA but I do not have a spare $6,000 dollars to give to Higher Power or any other sim center just to get an interview where I have a 20% chance of getting the job. I do not like those odds. Batting .200 for a career in baseball will not get you in the Hall of Fame.
From the website:

Southwest Airlines New Pilot Requirements

  • Certificates / Ratings:
    U.S. FAA Airline Transport Pilot Certificate. Unrestricted1 U.S. Type Rating on a B-737 not required for interview but required for employment.2
 

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Your right,

:-) said:
Lately, these SWA interview threads are starting to look like the old PFT threads. As soon as one is finished, another one starts :)

Now for my standard contribution. The method you use now, is NOT the method that worked for thirty years. My contacts have most all been there for fifteen years. They were not hired by an HR person asking them a trick question that's trying to determine some ellusive personality "type". Protest if you want, but any compotent and trained psycologist could determing your personality type by asking any series of questions. SWA uses aviation themed questions in order to fool the pilots into thinking that aviation has something to do with the process.

Yes, scoreboard, I know the score. I'm still trying to get an interview and I don't hold it against the company or the line crews because the PD is getting too much into psyco-babble. I just wish that they would be consistent. As I (and others) have posted in the recent past, either the system works or it doesn't. If the allow a "do-over", they are only admitting that their system is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Do they not realize that admitting a mistake in failure to hire is also admitting a mistake in someone that they DID hire. Think about it.

Calvin the Great
Your right. What other airline lets you apply and interview again?

So why is it bad to admit our system ain't perfect? But it works in the long run...

Best of luck on your application, look forward to flying with you.
 
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