SWA letters of "Thanks but no thanks, see ya next year.

[K-Mart]

I don't believe the hardest part is getting the type. Most people can swing that. Knowing people and getting a bunch of PIC is probably the limiting factor. Any thoughts??

 

[AlbieF15]

Warning...std Albie long post

Getting hired by SWA is a crapshoot. Like it or hate it, just as the FDX interview has a written test, Delta used to have a shrink, SWA has its own little quirks.

I think all of us will agree 95% of the guys/gals hired are great folks. The pain is that odds are most of the folks rejected are too. Any military primary instructor (UPT) will tell you that you forget the hundreds of students hwo you trained to get their wings, but your student that didn't get through haunts you for a long time. Coaching is the same way...most of my clients make it but I have had several GREAT guys/gals not get hired at SWA. Additionally, the folks who have come to me AFTER not getting hired there to get ready for other interviews included some pretty good people.

The venting I see here is perfectly natural, and I have done it too. Whenever my wife enters a beauty contest (about every 2 years on average) I want to go out and kick all the judges a$$es when she doesn't win. She is obviously the prettiest, smartest, and most complete woman on the stage. I'm not mad at the other contestants, but the JUDGES who obviously missed the point. However, my wife reminds me that she LIKES doing these things, and that on any given day each of the 5 judges will pick a different winner. In a contest like that, only 1 can win. She enters for the thrill of competition and the motivation it provides to be fit, dress well, and maintain a positive spirit. Despite the sterotypes of catty women, she has met a lot of very successful women in the circuits and many have become some of her closest friends.

Although the odds are better in a SWA interview, we seem to be seeing that about 2-4 out of 10 can win. So the question is simply "am I willing to accept an 60-80% chance of rejection to subject myself to this stress..." Now you must do a risk/reward tradeoff. If you accept that applying to SWA may be a 2 or 3 step process taking 3 years, then perhaps the process won't seem so daunting. You can also help your odds by getting the type (almost 100% requirement), getting an interview prep with one of the many folks who specialize in SWA prep, and networking like a madman. However, interviewing is an imperfect science and you are still down to sharing your life with 3 strangers for 45 minutes a pop. I've said this before...I have a good track record at SWA but d&mmit some of the folks who didn't make it were great people too. So...how do you deal with that? Here are a few options I've seen:

First...don't get blinders on. SWA has a great culture. So does Jetblue. If you don't think FedEx or UPS or Continetal have a great cuture, apply there, get hired, and be part of the solution. Don't just try to join the "in" crowd...create your own successful clique. If you are such a great pilot and leader, maybe you can exert your influence somewhere else to make it a more "SWA-like" organization.

Second...trust you faith. Perhaps you ain't meant to be at SWA. I was pretty PO'd when Delta, my dream job, quit hiring in June 01. However, my experience at interviewing at other carriers led to a successful business, and I'm not that far from holding 727 captain at FDX--already a great company but even more so in the post 9/11 world. Somebody had a plan for me that didn't include my original plan, and I am greatful. I've had several clients not get on at SWA who got on at UPS or JetBlue. Another missed FDX but is now at SWA. Yet another missed out on FDX but got offers at CAL and SWA. Although I don't know her and cannot speak for her, Capt Megadeath's experience is not that atypical. Not getting hired at SWA means you just got a free shot to try something completely different...and you might fine your "second" choice is ultimately a much better fit for your life.

Third...get a thick skin. 50-80% failure rates mean a heck of a lot of good folks didn't get hired either. You aren't a pariah if you SWA passed on you. The sting will fade, and you will move on. I heard United once passed on a Space Shuttle astronaut, so better pilots than any of us have been rejected. Its a tough industry with no perfect companies, so we cannot expect a perfect process.

God bless everyone in this tough industry. Although I get a little heartbroken at many of the rejections I hear about, I have seen enough people bounce back into much better situations--many times just days or weeks after the original rejection. So--keep your chin up and your eyes open. You only run out of opportunities when you quit breathing.

 

[TexaSWA]

I have been asking the same thing but the Stepford Wives on here get all bent out of shape.

I bet you look HOT in those brown pants pretty little lady. I think you need a spanking.

 

[scoreboard]

Wrong.

To require a type rating just to get an interview is a little excessive in my opinion. I understand that Southwest hires a personality type. That is an excellent way to staff any company. However why does EVERY personality type have to shell out $6,000 for a 737 type rating just to get an interview? If a type rating is required for the job, then hire someone with the understanding that they need to get the type prior to starting ground school or give them a time frame in which they need to have the type rating by and then put them in the pool for a class date.

I would love to work for SWA but I do not have a spare $6,000 dollars to give to Higher Power or any other sim center just to get an interview where I have a 20% chance of getting the job. I do not like those odds. Batting .200 for a career in baseball will not get you in the Hall of Fame.

From the website:

Southwest Airlines New Pilot Requirements

• Certificates / Ratings:
  U.S. FAA Airline Transport Pilot Certificate. Unrestricted1 U.S. Type Rating on a B-737 not required for interview but required for employment.2

 

[scoreboard]

Your right,

Lately, these SWA interview threads are starting to look like the old PFT threads. As soon as one is finished, another one starts

Now for my standard contribution. The method you use now, is NOT the method that worked for thirty years. My contacts have most all been there for fifteen years. They were not hired by an HR person asking them a trick question that's trying to determine some ellusive personality "type". Protest if you want, but any compotent and trained psycologist could determing your personality type by asking any series of questions. SWA uses aviation themed questions in order to fool the pilots into thinking that aviation has something to do with the process.

Yes, scoreboard, I know the score. I'm still trying to get an interview and I don't hold it against the company or the line crews because the PD is getting too much into psyco-babble. I just wish that they would be consistent. As I (and others) have posted in the recent past, either the system works or it doesn't. If the allow a "do-over", they are only admitting that their system is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Do they not realize that admitting a mistake in failure to hire is also admitting a mistake in someone that they DID hire. Think about it.

Calvin the Great

Your right. What other airline lets you apply and interview again?

So why is it bad to admit our system ain't perfect? But it works in the long run...

Best of luck on your application, look forward to flying with you.

 

[scoreboard]

And...?

Yes you got me ..... I spent my own money on my education. I did not suck on the government teet.

Thanks for your contribution to our society.

 

[PurpleTail]

Did you pay for your private? Commercial? Instrument?

CFI/II?

G100, you PFT'd. That horse, it died years ago.

That has got to be the ALL TIME weakest come back in the history of aviation!

 

[scoreboard]

Mil=PFT

What's wrong with the gov't paying for a person's education? I mean, they give losers money all the time. I would rather my taxes go to someone that will actually give back to society than someone who will just mooch more and keep the vicious cycle of government enablement going.

Oh, I get it, Military duty = PFT

Guilty.

A bit of a stretch but OK

 

[capt. megadeth]

I bet you look HOT in those brown pants pretty little lady. I think you need a spanking.

Spoken like a true Texan

 

[:-)]

What's wrong with the gov't paying for a person's education? I mean, they give losers money all the time. I would rather my taxes go to someone that will actually give back to society than someone who will just mooch more and keep the vicious cycle of government enablement going.

Oh, I get it, Military duty = PFT

Guilty.

A bit of a stretch but OK

Whoa there score, how do you come up with anything anti-military pilot in what Ms. Megadeth wrote? She obviously is addressing "moochers" and people who are 'enabled" by government. I don't think that even the most ardent anti-military pilot person on this board would go so far as to call military pilots moochers or persons who keep the vicious cycle of government enablement going. Sounds to me like she was refering to welfare queens, tobacco farmers, Sam Donaldson and his Angora ranch, and any number of people who feed of of big government.

Cal

 

[miles otoole]

Whoa there score, how do you come up with anything anti-military pilot in what Ms. Megadeth wrote? She obviously is addressing "moochers" and people who are 'enabled" by government. I don't think that even the most ardent anti-military pilot person on this board would go so far as to call military pilots moochers or persons who keep the vicious cycle of government enablement going. Sounds to me like she was refering to welfare queens, tobacco farmers, Sam Donaldson and his Angora ranch, and any number of people who feed of of big government.

Cal

What makes you think scoreboard was thinking anti-military? I think one flew right over your head.

 

[:-)]

What makes you think scoreboard was thinking anti-military? I think one flew right over your head.

wouldn't be the first time something flew right over my head. But since you ask, something about this phrase makes me think that scoreboard took Megadeths comments to be anti military.

Oh, I get it, Military duty = PFT

Maybe scoreboard will be so kind as to explain exactly what he meant since I took it one way and you seem to have taken it just the opposite. If two seemingly normal people see something and react completely opposite, it just might need more splaining, know whut ah mean?

Hobbes

 

[G100driver]

Thanks for your contribution to our society.

You are quite welcome sir. As of thus far this year I have contributed over $13,000 in Federal Taxes to support our "Great Society" alone.

I appreciate your sincere thanks for supporting you.

 

[scoreboard]

I did..

wouldn't be the first time something flew right over my head. But since you ask, something about this phrase makes me think that scoreboard took Megadeths comments to be anti military.



Maybe scoreboard will be so kind as to explain exactly what he meant since I took it one way and you seem to have taken it just the opposite. If two seemingly normal people see something and react completely opposite, it just might need more splaining, know whut ah mean?

Hobbes

I did, but I may have mistaken this darn internet discourse inappropriately Oops.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

The SWA interview process has flaws, as are do all the other airlines. The process has evolved into something quite different than what existed the first 30+ years of operations. Although the interview questions have not changed that much (from what I hear), there is now the LOI. Additionally, you have the whole interview prep industry with people that work for the Company selling their first-hand knowledge to those willing to pay. The vast majority of who we hire are great. Do we get better people than we did in the first 30+? I think not, in fact, I believe that we screen out more good people and allow more lesser oneto slip through than ever. Is this the fault of the process, "coaching" for the interview, or the erosion of our society in general? I don't know but I think we could randomly select a class from those turned down each year and they would likely perform just as well as those who made it initially.

As far as the type requirement goes, we have nearly 5000 pilots that acquired the type before being employed here. I think a majority of the pilot group is fine with the requirement for employment.

CR