SWA Interviews

[m80drvr]

18 month upgrade and about 15 years in the left seat at the Tran...yeah, I'm pretty sure I made more here. Believe what you want skippy.

Was that before or after you got a new contract ONLY because SWA was PURCHASING you airline? With out the purchase I thought you guys were about to strike. Not much money on a picket line.

Just asking.

 

[vixin]

AirTran Airways CAPT $71.21 $101.70 $106.30 $112.27 $120.01 $123.50 $127.15 $131.87 $136.85 $144.00 $147.33 $152.57

What were the rates before these wonderful ones? Wow -9 you couldn't get on with a legacy airline 18 years ago? Wonder why that was? I got on at SWA when no one else was hiring. I guess working at an airline we bought worked well for you.

Plus there is this.

Quote:
01/27/2010 CEO Robert Fornaro addressed the issue during a conference call Wednesday to discuss the airline's fourth-quarter financial results. QUESTION: How do you view the industry landscape and your prospects for growth in an improving economy?


Quote:


RESPONSE: "It's not our plan to scour the market and look for new planes. ... Right now, it's financial success first for us."




Quote:
2010-04-22
Quote:


ATLANTA -- AirTran Airways isn't putting up a for-sale sign, but the CEO of the discount carrier said Wednesday it would consider a combination with another carrier if approached and if such a deal made sense for the company and shareholders. CEO Robert Fornaro made the comments during a conference call with investors to discuss the airline's first-quarter financial results. Higher fuel prices stung AirTran, causing the usually profitable airline to post a $12 million loss for the first three months of the year.




Quote:
2009-02-06
Quote:


Comments ATLANTA (Map, News) - Discount carrier AirTran Airways doesn't expect any overall growth for two years as it tries to weather the severe downturn in the U.S. economy, though it will add service in Milwaukee in a renewed effort to gain market share there, Chief Executive Robert Fornaro said Thursday. Fornaro told a gathering of analysts at the Raymond James & Associates Growth Airline Conference that AirTran will cut capacity in 2009 and likely will be flat in terms of capacity in 2010, but in 2011 it could (doesnt mean it would) grow at least 5 percent. In the meantime, it will make a push in Milwaukee.

Quote:


AirTran pilots to picket outside annual meeting

Originally published: May 17, 2010 4:37 PM
By The Associated Press HARRY R. WEBER (AP Airlines Writer)
ATLANTA - (AP) ? AirTran Airways' pilots plan to picket outside the discount carrier's annual meeting to step up pressure on management over the workers' more than five-year effort to secure a new contract with better wages and quality-of-life improvements.
They also expect to announce during Tuesday's shareholders' meeting in Milwaukee that rank-and-file pilots have authorized the union to call a strike if it chooses.
At stake is AirTran's low-cost advantage over larger rivals that has allowed it to lead the way on fare sales and usually still turn a profit. AirTran posted a small loss for the first quarter but said it expects future cost pressures from fuel and maintenance. Additional labor costs could further affect its bottom line.

There is more but you get the point.

 

[-9Capt]

Yawn..

You obviously care a lot more about this than I do.

Whatever, you win, you're the richest FO ever. Congratulations. We're all very proud of you.

 

[SWA Bubba]

18 month upgrade and about 15 years in the left seat at the Tran...yeah, I'm pretty sure I made more here. Believe what you want skippy.

If you really spent 16-1/2 years at AirTran, then you're senior enough on the master list that you can re-upgrade to Caaptain at Southwest in just over a year. A year or less (depending on when you transition) as a maxed-out FO is pretty close to what you can make as an AirTran Captain, and then you'll be making a buttload more as a Southwest Captain than you would, had you the opportunity to stay an AirTran Captain going forward.

If you had been at Southwest the whole 16-1/2 years, you'd have upgraded at the 4-1/2 to 5 year point, and would have made even more--exponentially more--money than you did at the Tran.

You can say that you believe anything you want, "Skippy," but I don't think you're going to find anyone feeling sorry for you and your poor lot in life.

Bubba

 

[Just thinking]

"If you really spent 16-1/2 years at AirTran, then you're senior enough on the master list that you can re-upgrade to Caaptain at Southwest in just over a year" (sic)................

I prefer Skipper to Skippy but for you I will allow the oversight..... You know this is a complete piece of crap for an argument. The seat grab of 2013-2014 is a massive effort to prevent any FAT pilot from upgrading into a Captain seat for YEARS. Your "flattish" growth will stagnate and the only upgrades MAY come from some retirements but not likely. Your negotiations have stalled and and they are getting their pay raises in the GO with their Monday deck parties. On time performance is dismal and the rah rah crew is spinning more propaganda than Pravda at the height of the Cold War. GK is the emperor and he is wearing new clothes and the rest of his minions are running around telling him how wonderful he looks. The "canyon blue/ barney purple" glasses are starting to clear for a portion of the pilot group and there is even talk of petitioning for release. Would that be the pot calling the kettle black?

 

[-9Capt]

A year or less (depending on when you transition) as a maxed-out FO is pretty close to what you can make as an AirTran Captain

That's not what all of my "maxed-out FO" friends at SW are telling me.

Also, define "buttload". When I transition, I'll be around 183-186/hr...what's SW top capt pay? Like 10-12% more. Again your definition of "buttload" might mean something completely different than mine

Also, can you guarantee me those rates going forward? We all had our seniority taken from us with no guarantees of future compensation.

I don't think you're going to find anyone feeling sorry for you and your poor lot in life.

Thanks, but I'm not looking for sympathy from you or anyone else...I'll be fine...skippy.

 

[SWA Bubba]

"If you really spent 16-1/2 years at AirTran, then you're senior enough on the master list that you can re-upgrade to Caaptain at Southwest in just over a year" (sic)................

I prefer Skipper to Skippy but for you I will allow the oversight..... You know this is a complete piece of crap for an argument. The seat grab of 2013-2014 is a massive effort to prevent any FAT pilot from upgrading into a Captain seat for YEARS.

Really? Every single upgrade starting 1/1/2015 will be a former AirTran guy. Every one. Even with no growth whatsoever, that's several hundred per year, starting Jan 2015, based on retirements alone. In "YEARS" (as you quoted above) they'll all have been upgraded. Like I said, based on retirements alone. If -9Capt is as senior as he claims, he'll be one of the first.

Your "flattish" growth will stagnate and the only upgrades MAY come from some retirements but not likely.

This statement is based on nothing other than your neverending eternal pessimism surrounding all things Southwest. "Flattish" refers to the company's opening financial offer in section 6. International growth is projected to be actual growth. Even if not, retirements and more senior pilots earning more vacations require replacement at greater than one-to-one. Yet apparently you have some crystal ball over there that says otherwise, solely because it supports your eternal whining.

Your negotiations have stalled and and they are getting their pay raises in the GO with their Monday deck parties. On time performance is dismal and the rah rah crew is spinning more propaganda than Pravda at the height of the Cold War. GK is the emperor and he is wearing new clothes and the rest of his minions are running around telling him how wonderful he looks. The "canyon blue/ barney purple" glasses are starting to clear for a portion of the pilot group and there is even talk of petitioning for release. Would that be the pot calling the kettle black?

This last part has absolutely jack squat to do with what we were talking about. Can you tell me how it's related?

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

That's not what all of my "maxed-out FO" friends at SW are telling me.

Also, define "buttload". When I transition, I'll be around 183-186/hr...what's SW top capt pay? Like 10-12% more. Again your definition of "buttload" might mean something completely different than mine

Also, can you guarantee me those rates going forward? We all had our seniority taken from us with no guarantees of future compensation.



Thanks, but I'm not looking for sympathy from you or anyone else...I'll be fine...skippy.

A "buttload" is defined in this case as more money for fewer days worked. Work the same number of days, and we'll have to invent a new word....perhaps "sh1tton." A top Southwest captain makes (today) about $229/hour based on conversion rates. You're projecting future AirTran rates in a negotiated contract, while we're still in negotiations for last year's rates and going forward. We've always gotten retro with a contact.

And no, no one can possibly guarantee pay rates going forward. However, Southwest rates have always been considerably higher than AirTran. And considering we're negotiating a contract with a company that's making record profits (not to mention 40 years' consecutive profits), concessions and givebacks are not on the table. You guys keep talking about how much more of a raise you were "going to get" from AirTran (a company in a more precarious financial position than Southwest), but then out the other side of you mouth, you presume that we'll get nothing in our negotiations. Make up your mind.

My point was countering your claim that you made more money at AirTran than you would or could have at Southwest. BS. That's what I was getting at.

I'm glad you'll be "fine." I'm happy for you. However, if you're really not looking for sympathy from anyone, then maybe you could stop whining about everything.

Bubba

 

[-9Capt]

maybe you could stop whining about everything.

I don't whine, I state facts.

SWAPA knew they'd get a less than favorable SLI from an arbitrator and went crying to uncle Gary for help. Congratulations, your side played in the gutter and won. You guys are the best. You should be proud.

 

[redflyer65]

I don't whine, I state facts.

SWAPA knew they'd get a less than favorable SLI from an arbitrator and went crying to uncle Gary for help. Congratulations, your side played in the gutter and won. You guys are the best. You should be proud.

Fly Black Helicopters much? You have no idea what your talking about. SWAPA did the best with what they had available and Gary did what he thought was best for the company.

I wish SWAPA had that much control over Gary. Your thesis is laughable.

 

[-9Capt]

Please explain how alienating 25-30% of your pilots is "best for the company".


Best for the company would have been for him to say out and let the normal process work. Maybe the SLI would look different, maybe not, but at least it would have been decided fairly and not dictated to us. Of course, you'll disagree.

Gary got something for his efforts. -800 rates? No international override/crew meals? Airtran code share? Red eyes?

Whether you realize it or not, he needed something from you, and you needed something from him and we were the pawn in all of this.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

Here we go again - right of the thread "SWA Interviews" - AT guys give it a rest, if you don't like the move then move on, and join one of the legacies - Oh I forgot you would be at the bottom of the FO list ( lower pay)and no free type until you get a left had seat ( 5years maybe). Stay at SWA stop gripping and check your bank account on the 5th and 20th, I bet it will be a lot more than the legacies at this time

 

[Just thinking]

"Really? Every single upgrade starting 1/1/2015 will be a former AirTran guy. Every one. Even with no growth whatsoever, that's several hundred per year, starting Jan 2015, based on retirements alone."................

ONLY IF THERE ARE VACANCIES!

SWA staffing numbers at 10.5 crew per aircraft. 800 upgrades in two years. When was the last time that SWA upgraded 800 in two years?

Retirements around 750 or so over the next four years. Aircraft deliveries deferred. Less than 60 Airtram 737's. MAYBE some foreign leased aircraft to replace 300's and 500's. ASM's will increase but pilot numbers will not.

Flattish will be what you see regardless of what your bag tag says. Your negotiating power was signed away with each and every SL that has been signed away. You got your seats and now GK is going to get what he wants. He can increase the RASM with increased ASM's and the international operations that will eventually evolve at the current glacial place. He will show the board that he can get his 15% ROIC and keep his pilots in line.

The last part about negotiations progress is directly related to pilot cost. Got retro written in contractual language or are you reliant upon the good nature of GK and his minions?

 

[redflyer65]

Please explain how alienating 25-30% of your pilots is "best for the company".


Best for the company would have been for him to say out and let the normal process work. Maybe the SLI would look different, maybe not, but at least it would have been decided fairly and not dictated to us. Of course, you'll disagree.

Gary got something for his efforts. -800 rates? No international override/crew meals? Airtran code share? Red eyes?

Whether you realize it or not, he needed something from you, and you needed something from him and we were the pawn in all of this.

Okay -9 Capt. Let's look at the facts, since that's what you like...

1- Gary stated from the beginning, he wanted a negotiated settlement. He said this to both pilot groups multiple times.

2- Your negotiating committee came back with a deal. You know....YOUR guys. This wasn't a one sided agreement. I'm sorry if you didn't like it. Your MEC sealed your fate by voting no.

3- You were making 152/hr when SW stepped in. You could still be making that rate as far as I'm concerned. Your CEO was in no hurry to get anything done with your contract.

4- Why was Gary involved in the SLI? Because your pay scales were so low, he needed to be involved with bringing it up. It wasn't SWAPA's money, it was Gary's.

5- Gary alienating his work group? Will that was his decision. I won't defend it for him but there were plenty of AAI employees begging for a staple to get out from under your stellar management team.

So you immediately went from 152/hr to over 180 BECAUSE of SW. After transitioning and then a short upgrade you'll make over 210/hr. Again, thanks to Southwest. And you still come on here whining? And yes, it's whining. In the meantime, every AirTran FO will get a financial windfall (you know, half your work group) so it's even questionable that he's alienating every one of them. Again, not defending Gary's actions but it is what it is.

So Part 2,

You are actually saying we gave Gary relief on our contract to screw you? You really need to put the crack pipe down. That's insane.

To everyone else,

Sorry to highjack the thread. Now back to Southwest interviewing and hiring. Which is a good thing for everyone!

 

[humveedriver]

Here we go again - right of the thread "SWA Interviews" - AT guys give it a rest, if you don't like the move then move on, and join one of the legacies - Oh I forgot you would be at the bottom of the FO list ( lower pay)and no free type until you get a left had seat ( 5years maybe). Stay at SWA stop gripping and check your bank account on the 5th and 20th, I bet it will be a lot more than the legacies at this time

They have their audience here. As long a someone responds to their post they feel vindicated. Hopefully SWA keeps hiring and growing organically for a long while. I'm in no hurry to got through this crap again.