SWA going against McCaskill Bond?

[Bake]

ALPA will destroy many peoples career before it is over. At least the majority of JetBlue guys get it. I'm not saying, "don't be represented" but you better stay away from the money making machine (3M) of ALPA.

 

[fam62c]

"they took on a task that they are NOT QUALIFIED to manage"...........

"they should be throwing water on the fire but instead are pouring on gasoline"...........

Says the pilot who was part of a pilot group that voted 98% to strike to the management team of an airline that has had 38 years of profitability.

Another graduate of public schools and the ALPA clinic of logic.

Where did I say I don't hold AT/ALPA responsible for their part in this drama as well? It was handled very poorly, you don't send in a team to negotiate a deal with no guidelines (but full authority and autonomy) and then fail to send the deal they come up with to the membership. Where was the oversight and checks/balances here within the union? This was a massive failure to communicate on the part of the AT/ALPA, if the MEC didn't think that deal met the "requirements" (whatever those were) they never should have let it get to the TA stage and the press release stage. I'm not singling anyone out, I'm blaming everybody involved here.

However, don't you also think that if SW management wanted to impose a seniority solution on the AT unions they should have presented the terms before the merger/aquisition was consummated and made the agreement of the AT unions conditional to the transaction? They must have done their research and they must know how seniority list arbitration awards typically look between two solvent, unionized major airlines flying similiar equipment. If they went into this transaction with their eyes fully open arbitration can't come as a surprise can it?

 

[Sacha]

"if they went into this transaction WITH THEIR EYES FULLY OPEN, ARBITRATION can't come as a surprise can it?"

So what you said in your last sentence sums up your belief that SWA and SWAPA should have been intelligent enough from the very start of the acquisition to realize that any negotiations or mediation was a waste of their time unless they gave you whatever you DEMANDED otherwise you were going to ARBITRATION ?!?....

Shack!!!! You have unwittingly I believe, summed up exactly why I and the majority of Southwest pilots fear that this has been a colossal mistake. I am hoping that SWA management has realized this too and will go to plan B. Rest assured that even with relative seniority, I may have a handful your guys above me which means absolutely nothing. But I don't care if you get relative and SWA gives everyone of you guys a shiny new BMW, most of you will still be a pissed off, arrogant, entitlement minded pain in the asses employees for the rest of your careers. Nothing you brought to the table could counter that over the long haul. Airline history is full of happy proud employee groups who have turned into miserable sullen mobs in as little as two to five years given the right poison. I am sorry but I don't see too much upside from this. This really is Gary Kellys choice as to where we all go from here. If any of us think the arbitrator somehow "OWNS" this airline and can tell Gary what he has to do other than give him a seniority list and say this is fair. If you go single cert. this is binding. Well then I just woke up in f'ing Caracas, Venezuala.

 

[waveflyer]

Fam62, Shut your LIBERAL pie hole. We are tired of your "hope and change" kernal!

What the hell does any of what he said have to do with being LIBERAL?
I'm liberal, and I don't agree with anything he said.

 

[Dan Roman]

Fam62, Shut your LIBERAL pie hole. We are tired of your "hope and change" kernal!

He makes some very good points, you can't counter with anything intelligent, so you take the Fox news/Glen Beck tactic by slinging insults. You just helped prove his point.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Kp

People get put on an ignore list when they become irrelevant. They become irrelevant when they can no longer discuss an issue without resorting to over-the-top comments and accusations. I got three on my list.

General Lee
OYS
Juan Juan

They brought nothing to the discussion but hyperbole and rhetoric. You used to be more reasonable and communicative. But, your recent foray into the fecal arts and the spur of the moment "fire, ready, aim" retorts that don't really add anything to the debate are growing weary. I can see why Bake has put you on ignore. I'm close as well. Take it FWIW.

You may not like what I have to say but I'm not wasting your time with idiotic posts about poop or saying the same thing over and over again. A lot of the trannies that are upset about the latest turn of events are coming off like spoiled children that don't think they are going to get to go to Chuck E. Cheese now because they pi$$ed off Mom and Dad.

Own it.

 

[Kharma Police]

People get put on an ignore list when they become irrelevant. They become irrelevant when they can no longer discuss an issue without resorting to over-the-top comments and accusations. I got three on my list.

General Lee
OYS
Juan Juan

They brought nothing to the discussion but hyperbole and rhetoric. You used to be more reasonable and communicative. But, your recent foray into the fecal arts and the spur of the moment "fire, ready, aim" retorts that don't really add anything to the debate are growing weary. I can see why Bake has put you on ignore. I'm close as well. Take it FWIW.

You may not like what I have to say but I'm not wasting your time with idiotic posts about poop or saying the same thing over and over again. A lot of the trannies that are upset about the latest turn of events are coming off like spoiled children that don't think they are going to get to go to Chuck E. Cheese now because they pi$$ed off Mom and Dad.

Own it.

You don't like what I have to say because you know in your mind I may be correct. If you want to ignore me, that's fine, I've already made my points which you can't ignore.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Kp

You don't like what I have to say because you know in your mind I may be correct. If you want to ignore me, that's fine, I've already made my points which you can't ignore.

Which part is it specifically that you are blathering about that you seem to think I "fear" and think you are "correct" about? You have been all over the map the last few days.

Can or will Kelly sell off some of the assets of Aitran? You seem to think he can't I think he can and will do whatever he wants.

You seem to think he's afraid of BM. I think he could give two $hit$ about it and has a workaround. You don't

You seem to think the process agreement some how protects you better than it protects swapa. I say nothing could be further from the truth. (so-we disagree)

You seem to think 1600 pilots at what equates to a regional somehow puts you on par with the largest domestic carrier in the free world. (who's smoking what now?)

You seem to think we fear arbitration. (I don't-I just don't think Mr. Kelly will let this place turn into another USAir/Cactii) You seem to think he's fine with that. I've worked for him for over fifteen years. You?

 

[Kharma Police]

Which part is it specifically that you are blathering about that you seem to think I "fear" and think you are "correct" about? You have been all over the map the last few days.

Can or will Kelly sell off some of the assets of Aitran? You seem to think he can't I think he can and will do whatever he wants.

You seem to think he's afraid of BM. I think he could give two $hit$ about it and has a workaround. You don't

You seem to think the process agreement some how protects you better than it protects swapa. I say nothing could be further from the truth. (so-we disagree)

You seem to think 1600 pilots at what equates to a regional somehow puts you on par with the largest domestic carrier in the free world. (who's smoking what now?)

You seem to think we fear arbitration. (I don't-I just don't think Mr. Kelly will let this place turn into another USAir/Cactii) You seem to think he's fine with that. I've worked for him for over fifteen years. You?

I will make this somewhat simplistic.

Any fair SLI agreement (in our eyes) either through mediation or arbitration will be unacceptable to SWAPA. Therefore, SWAPA will have a choice to either honor the agreement or say no to Gary when asked to do so by him. I believe SWAPA will say yes.

In my opinion, SWAPA made a colossal mistake by making promises to their pilots that they knew they might not be able to keep. An error in managing realistic expectations.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Kp

Really!

Any fair SLI agreement (in our eyes) either through mediation or arbitration will be unacceptable to SWAPA.

They already accepted one that was fair and equitable (to them-but not the membership) You guys turned it down. Sucks to be you. Should have taken that deal. Bet the majority of your membership wishes they had the chance to vote for it now. IMHO, the arby will not be as generous.

Therefore, SWAPA will have a choice to either honor the agreement or say no to Gary when asked to do so by him.

We have no more choice than ALPA to accept it or deny it. The only way swapa can deny it is by using nuclear options like USAPA used. Kelly on the other hand can sell you off and drain you down to nothing. Looks like that is already happening. He's eliminating your unproductive destinations, reducing your flying in and out of ATL and installing Real Southwest Pilots on routes that you used to fly while also increasing the service with Real Southwest Pilots. (how's that plan working for you so far?)

I believe SWAPA will say yes.

Yes to what? Reducing Airtran flying? Eliminating Airtran destinations and routes that are unproductive? Reducing Airtran exposure while increasing Southwest exposure? You bet we'll say, "Yes" to that!!

In my opinion, SWAPA made a colossal mistake by making promises to their pilots that they knew they might not be able to keep. An error in managing realistic expectations.

Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing about Alpa and the promises they've made to you.