SWA / Frontier Deal Off For Now!

[FlyinGuy]

If FAPA is holding out for seat protection, maybe SWA can offer the seat but they can keep their current pay and benefits plan! These guys are nuts...they want seat and a pay raise...they are the bankrupt carrier!

 

[b19]

I don't work at SWA, wish I did, but with friends at both places, I'd hate to see this turn ugly.

To my F9 friends whatever deal you are offered at SWA take it, because you will still have a job and a career. Whatever deal you are offered at RAH refuse it, because you WILL have no job and no career in two years, you WILL wind up sinking down the regional toilet.

LET'S AGREE STAPLING SUCKS; NOW WHERE DO YOU WANT TO BE 10, 20 YEARS FROM NOW?

 

[fiel12]

Now, what was the quote from Pulp Fiction..."F$%# pride"?? Can't remember.

"It only hurts, it never helps."

I believe that's the line.

 

[b19]

What he just said, the hell with pride, ego and the left seat, take the career being offered at SWA. I just would like to see my F9 friends flying at SWA for the next 20 or so. Good Luck to all.

 

[Monster Buck]

There is no way that FAPA will let a deal with SWA pass. They would be out of their minds. They are hanging off a cliff with one hand and here is chance to not only be pulled to safety but to live a better life after. BTW falling off the cliff isn't chapter 7 ...its being owned by RAH! Good luck to my friends at Frontier.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Proud of SWAPA. Not one F9 pilot deserves to be senior to one SWAPA pilot....Yes SWA doesn't suck like your airline.

First quote of many that demonstrates a couple things...the arrogance of the SWA pilot group and the ignorance of the law of the land.

F9 pilots have rights, they should defend them.

Yes they do. Legal rights. Its called the Allegheny/Mohawk LPPs and its the LAW OF THE LAND.

Now the door maybe open for a serious consolidation of carriers such as JetBlue, Virgin, Frontier and Spirit.

Guess what? Virgin has already expressed interest in F9's Airbii.

You do realize it's SOUTHWEST AIRLINES trying to give you a job don't you?

Again, SWA arrogance on parade. I can remember a time when it was inconceivable that there could be an airline industry without Pan Am, Eastern, TWA, etc. Things change, pal.

Wow, the SW jerks are coming out of the woodwork.

You noticed that too?

I dont think they are being Jerks. I would love to see the F9 guys at SWA.

"...as long as they're stapled to the bottom of our list." You forgot to add that part.

I feel a small group of senior F9 guys are driving this to the ground.

Wrong. They're just standing up for their LEGAL rights. You buy their airline, you must integrate the seniority list using the Allegheny/Mohawk LPPs. And one of the BIG items in that is NO WINDFALLS.

Placing F9 pilots behind new hire SWA pilots constitutes a huge windfall for junior SWA guys. And there's no argument there.

But seeing what Repubic did to Midwest I am very complexed . JMO

What does this even mean?

Wow, do they teach you guys at SWA the "holier than thou" attitude in training or do you just get hired with that attitude?.

:laugh:

How big was SWA when they bought Morris? How big are you guys now?

As all those financial disclosures say, "Past performance is not indicative of future results".

Exactly right. Past growth cannot be extrapolated into the future.

Disagree. They will force arbitration and get seat protection and relative seniority to their respective seat. It is Federal Law Mohawk Allegeny. These guys know what they are doing.

Much as I HATE agreeing with anything ID says, he's right about this one. Allegheny/Mohawk precludes windfalls. Now you might toss the "career expectations" card on the table, but that is generally understood to mean upgrading from narrowbody to widebody equipment. That is a nonstarter in this case because both airlines are narrowbody operators.

Here's the ONLY fair way to integrate these two carriers that complies with current Federal Law:

1. No bump, no flush.
2. All SWA pilots hired before the startup date of the current airline known as Frontier are protected.
3. The rest of the F9 and SWA pilots are ratioed together based on the number of remaining pilots.

Period, end of story.

Flame away.

 

[fiel12]

and we have a superior product.

Well, I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[canyonblue737]

The offer is to pay protect at SWA FO rates from day 1 even before they come over to WN. I am a 5 year FO at SWA and make more than CAs at F9. IMHO that is a crazy good offer, every pilot at F9 will get a raise (and in some cases a big one) on the very first day. I wish there was an answer where everyone is happy but there isn't, don't let pride cause you to lose an opportunity that will pay off in the long run compared to the alternatives.

 

[b19]

Something else to think about. SWA did not offer to pay protect you because it's the right thing to do. SWA wants to operate F9 seperately and slowly shut it down. SWAPA WANTS you guys here and got SWA to give this extra money up for you! Do you think SWA want to pay 1st year SWA FO's F9 pre-chapter 11 CA rates? SWAPA is your friend in this deal but we are not your fairy grandmother. I still don't believe RAH will beat out SWA. I do think staple with pay protection is the best deal you'll get and it gets much worse from there. We're not better or more deserving in life than you but our management is ruthless and they will stop at nothing to get what they want. Take the bird in hand, for Pete's sake.

shootr

SHOOTR just summed this whole thing up.

Right seat at SWA is better than left seat and eventually no seat in the regionals. Take this deal while you can still get it. Three years from now, how do you explain to your kids you turned down a job from SWA, and sorry you don't have the money to pay for their college!

The things I regret most are the opportunities I missed.

 

[walkthasky]

...

Wow, I would be pissed if my senior captains said to staple me and they will be integrated....wow! I could see if Frontier was doing well, in the black, and prosperous with a hostile takeover looming over them. BUT, they are in bankruptcy with option B to work for a regional ? I surely hope the Frontier guys are waking up this morning calling there union and saying "WTF" ? On a side note, we have been cautiously optimistic about our culture here at SWA. I think most of us are happy to see GK stick to his word about labor agreement requirements prior to an acquisition.

Good luck to us all