SWA / Frontier Deal Off For Now!

[krewmeel]

Thanks for the update law and order re-run loser

Your welcome

 

[sluggo]

......

 

[waveflyer]

No- you don't get it.
This is a line in the sand - turning this down is the equivalent of throwing down the guantlet. Whether that's your intention or not won't matter. It's what it will be. Yesterday there was a relative peaceful existence- tomorrow that's not what you'll have.

It's not about class- it's a capitalistic society and wn is competing and couldn't care less what others think about that.

So ask yourself- be part of southwest or it's worst enemy? Do you think RAH money will let you grow? Think wn will allow one bit of growth out of whatever you become? Forget about SWA's money- do you think under RAH mgmt you'll have the passion to compete with our people?


Here's to hoping that f9ers have enough phones to make it clear to their FAPA reps what their wishes are. You're betting the company on this one.

 

[Poahi]

No- you don't get it.
Swa peacefully coexisted- there's no going back to that. You accept the deal or you don't- but don't turn it down thinking that you didn't create a rallying cry. That rah's piddly infusion of cash will be enough against our people. I mean forget about our money for a second- do you really think that under RAH mgmt you have the passion to compete with us?

If that's really SWA's strategy - an ego driven turf war, it's a 180 degree turn in the strategy that made SWA the powerhouse it is today. This is clearly a turning point in SWA's history and a confirmation of some of the comments from airline analysts.

 

[kwick]

When Morris was bought SW was in a growth mode and upgrades were running about 6 years.

Now, with over 500 airplanes, growth is relatively slow, upgrades will be in the 15-20 year range.

The only way to preserve the SW "culture" , which is fueled by growth and fast upgrades, is by buying Captain slots for their F/Os. at the expense of others. Such as Frontier pilots.

 

[slaquer5]

l......

 

[SWA/FO]

Just keep in mind that if they are caught using this information as a competitive advantage then Gary Kelly and his Texan buddies go to prison.

Also, after WN management looked at our books and examined our cost structure, they still wanted to proceed with the deal. Our costs (CASM ex-fuel) are lower than theirs, and we have a superior product.

We also have customer loyalty that has been elusive to them in the Denver market.

Oh, one little thing: you are in bankruptcy and it looks as if a regional carrier is going to buy you.... Oh, the importance of having GOOD elected Officers in a union.

 

[slaquer5]

Oh, one little thing: you are in bankruptcy and it looks as if a regional carrier is going to buy you.... Oh, the importance of having GOOD elected Officers in a union.

Dont forget Republic FO pay tops out at 36 bucks an Hr. So half the F9 pilots will be getting paid that. Dont worry captains have top pay for a 20 yr guy at 120. So in another 6 years you senior F9 guys can make 120.

 

[Quiet Flight]

You really have to be a special kind of idiot to turn down a deal like this. I mean this isn't just your average day-to-day idiot, this is AAA+ idiocy we're seeing here on FAPA's part.

"I'm a F9 Captain and I deserve my seat!!!! Oh, what's that you say? My pay will increase by $80,000 a year if I go back to the right seat at SWA? And I'll AVERAGE 17.7 days off per month? And I'll have a far superior benefits package? And I keep my seniority for vacation? And I can stay in Denver? And I won't be a regional pilot? NO! Screw that! I just wanna be a Captain at any cost!!! I know what's best. I'm a Frontier CAPTAIN for godsakes!!! A CAPTAIN!!! I can't be wrong! It's impossible!!!!".

If you thought bankruptcy at F9 was a Sh!t Sandwich, just wait until you're a RAH pilot.

Unbelievable the business sense (or TOTAL lack thereof) of pilots sometimes...

Only 3 things matter in this business: 1) Job Security 2) W2 3) QOL The rest is just white noise.

 

[fngswa]

Nicely said!

I was just flying with a very senior guy, and asked him about the Morris deal, and how their pilots felt about the the staple. He said that they weren't a very happy bunch at the time, BUT there is NOT 1 ex-Morris pilot here at SWA today, (making 220k+/YR.) that is not happy about being stapled to the bottom.

That's what it boils down to...Pride vs. Reality! Pride lands you a job at Home Depot. If I were at F9, I'd be fighting to get someone at FAPA who actually gives a $hit about they're own on this deal.

I hope F9 doesn't turn out to be FZERO with RAH... or at all for that matter.

Cheers,

Ski

Now, what was the quote from Pulp Fiction..."F$%# pride"?? Can't remember.

 

[flint4xx]

I thnk FAPA may be credited with making one of the worst business decisions in AVIATION HISTORY.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Wow, the SW jerks are coming out of the woodwork.

 

[flint4xx]

Don't be hatin'. Truth hurts.

 

[slaquer5]

Wow, the SW jerks are coming out of the woodwork.

I dont think they are being Jerks. I would love to see the F9 guys at SWA. I feel a small group of senior F9 guys are driving this to the ground. Half of the F9 pilots are now going to make 36 dollars an Hr at a commuter. If this is how the majority of the F9 pilots feel I respect there decission and wish them best of luck w/ Republic. But seeing what Repubic did to Midwest I am very complexed . JMO

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

To me it seem the sw pilots want this more than the f9 guys. Almost desperate for a little furlough cushion. If sw is the place to be they all claim then they would not have to be so defensive. Not saying it is or has not been a good place to work but it is NOT the be all end all. There are tens of thousands of us who never applied, even with all the turmoil at our own airllines with the ch11s, mergers etcc. If I were at the bottom of a seniority list, sw would not be my first choice. AA, Dal would be top two due to the massive retirements in the future along with a wide variety of flying. You southwest guys on here at least have really shown your true culture. ARROGANCE.

 

[Whine Lover]

" This will go down as the most monumentally stupid thing a pilot union has (ever) done. "


AMEN.


YKW

 

[johnsonrod]

Wow, do they teach you guys at SWA the "holier than thou" attitude in training or do you just get hired with that attitude? Do you guys miss Top Gun????? Not impressive during a difficult economic period for many people out there.

I agree that the SWA offer would be better than the status quo for the F9 pilots but you can't fault them for good-faith negotiations (pretty normal). I would be surprised if SWA management just rolls over and accepts this - it wants to remove a low-cost competitor and secure a place for future 737 orders. Expect an extension.

 

[BoilerUP]

I was just flying with a very senior guy, and asked him about the Morris deal, and how their pilots felt about the the staple. He said that they weren't a very happy bunch at the time, BUT there is NOT 1 ex-Morris pilot here at SWA today, (making 220k+/YR.) that is not happy about being stapled to the bottom.

How big was SWA when they bought Morris? How big are you guys now?

You project the same % growth in SWA over the same period of time going forward?

As all those financial disclosures say, "Past performance is not indicative of future results".

 

[Quimby]

To me it seem the sw pilots want this more than the f9 guys. Almost desperate for a little furlough cushion. If sw is the place to be they all claim then they would not have to be so defensive. Not saying it is or has not been a good place to work but it is NOT the be all end all. There are tens of thousands of us who never applied, even with all the turmoil at our own airllines with the ch11s, mergers etcc. If I were at the bottom of a seniority list, sw would not be my first choice. AA, Dal would be top two due to the massive retirements in the future along with a wide variety of flying. You southwest guys on here at least have really shown your true culture. ARROGANCE.

An AA guy calling another pilot group arrogant? I knew this website was good for entertainment.

 

[bravodude]

To me it seem the sw pilots want this more than the f9 guys. Almost desperate for a little furlough cushion. If sw is the place to be they all claim then they would not have to be so defensive. Not saying it is or has not been a good place to work but it is NOT the be all end all. There are tens of thousands of us who never applied, even with all the turmoil at our own airllines with the ch11s, mergers etcc. If I were at the bottom of a seniority list, sw would not be my first choice. AA, Dal would be top two due to the massive retirements in the future along with a wide variety of flying. You southwest guys on here at least have really shown your true culture. ARROGANCE.

You are correct the company that has never furloughed an employee has pilots that want "a little" furlough protection. I am glad that AA is at the top of your list however I would go and talk to some TWA pilots and see how they feel about ARROGANCE at AA.