SWA / Frontier Deal Off For Now!

[tomgoodman]

Fat Lady on hold?

Tonight SWAPA has reached an impasse with the Frontier Airline Pilots’ Association. Both parties have bargained all evening under a deadline for resolution for midnight (EST). At the deadline, neither party was willing to accept the other’s proposal.

I don't know whether this deal will happen or should happen, but keep in mind that SLI agreements have almost never been reached without at least one side walking away from the table, and at least one "deadline extension". It's almost a required part of the procedure.

 

[firstthird]

I think the judge imposed deadline is a little different. I think that usually an SLI comes after a merger is completed and thus the threat is of binding arbitration whereas in this case, the threat is no deal getting done. perfectly fine by SWAPA's viewpoint. you could be right though, I'm really not a familiar with all of the recent SLIs as I could be.

 

[737lj]

Thanks

go look in the forums on our union website. our communications guy put out a blurb.

Found it, Thanks. Here's a shocker: I didn't realize we had an entire Frontier folder on the forum. I bet RAH will give seat protection to the F9 Captains. Good for them if that's what they really want.

 

[Dude]

BTW, the deal would have resulted in 24-47% raises for the F9 guys from their contract rates, not BK pay!

2 year fence, seniority number for current furloughees, seat protection until draw-down over next two years, DEN domicile protection, and carry longevity for pay and vacation. SOunds like a $hitty deal to me.

I hope your labor leadership realizes the difference between our deal and what Rep would offer.......

 

[flypdx]

BTW, the deal would have resulted in 24-47% raises for the F9 guys from their contract rates, not BK pay!

2 year fence, seniority number for current furloughees, seat protection until draw-down over next two years, DEN domicile protection, and carry longevity for pay and vacation. SOunds like a $hitty deal to me.

I hope your labor leadership realizes the difference between our deal and what Rep would offer.......

Yea, yea, yea.... But what about the animals????? The kids love em you know.

 

[The Victors]

Guess the F9 guys would rather sit in the left seat and make $120,000 vs sitting in the right seat and make $200,000+ with 5 weeks vacation. Assuming RAH lets them stay in the left seat.

 

[ThisistheDream]

I hope F9 doesnt follow the path of midwest, after saying no to Airtran they ended up with repbulic taking them over!!!

 

[GuppyWN]

Damn boys. That's quite a poker face you've got there in Denver!

You do realize it's SOUTHWEST AIRLINES trying to give you a job don't you?

Gup

 

[GlobeIII]

F9 Guys. Don't know if this is the Swan Song or not..but I really had wish this had ended up different. I had a neighbor who is a Midwest forloughee and he is adamant that any deal with Southwest is a better deal than with Republic. I don't know? I am not in his shoes, nor am I in yours. If the deal ends up with you guys under Republic's umbrella...best of luck to you.

Being a junior guy here at WN, I hope this isn't a case of your senior guys ruining a good thing for the junior guys....cuz that sh*t is getting old real quick, no matter what airline you work for.

I will be watching the news with great interest in the next 24hrs...hopefully there is last ditch maneuvering going on as I type this.

 

[GuppyWN]

It isn't great news for Craig, your most junior member. This deal couls have guaranteed that he wasn't going to be furloughed, or any SWA FO for that matter.

40 new airframes.

A Denver domicile.

Growth instead of "right-sizing".

No furloughs for any current SWA pilot.

Hopefully the court will approve an extension and a mutually beneficial agreement can be hammered out. This really is a potential win/win scenario for all involved.

What is your approximate seniority number and do you feel your career will be better off going to RAH over being stapled and pay protected at SOUTHWEST AIRLINES?

Gup

 

[Mach 80]

Apparently some of the FAPA leadership read too many business articles insinuating it was essential for SWA that SWA take over Frontier.

Guess what F9 -- it's not essential. SWA will do fine without F9. What's more interesting will be to see how F9 (pilots) will now do without SWA.

 

[Flying the Line]

I heard republic is going to sell 49% to southwest.

 

[stall022]

Southwest has won out either way.

If the pilots settle, Southwest gets rid of the competition in Denver.

If the pilots do not settle, Southwest got a great look at all the insider financial data and information they will later need to kill whatever is left of Frontier (Mesa vs. Aloha, Except Southwest will be a lot smarter about the whole thing).

 

[The Victors]

I'm sure that a seniority list staple with RAH will be a much better option for the F9 guys. What are the FO rates at republic again?? Does that comes with a new backpack??

 

[SkiMoguls]

To SWA, or not to SWA

I was just flying with a very senior guy, and asked him about the Morris deal, and how their pilots felt about the the staple. He said that they weren't a very happy bunch at the time, BUT there is NOT 1 ex-Morris pilot here at SWA today, (making 220k+/YR.) that is not happy about being stapled to the bottom.

That's what it boils down to...Pride vs. Reality! Pride lands you a job at Home Depot. If I were at F9, I'd be fighting to get someone at FAPA who actually gives a $hit about they're own on this deal.

I hope F9 doesn't turn out to be FZERO with RAH... or at all for that matter.

Cheers,

Ski

 

[krewmeel]

Southwest has won out either way.

If the pilots settle, Southwest gets rid of the competition in Denver.

If the pilots do not settle, Southwest got a great look at all the insider financial data and information they will later need to kill whatever is left of Frontier (Mesa vs. Aloha, Except Southwest will be a lot smarter about the whole thing).

Just keep in mind that if they are caught using this information as a competitive advantage then Gary Kelly and his Texan buddies go to prison.

Also, after WN management looked at our books and examined our cost structure, they still wanted to proceed with the deal. Our costs (CASM ex-fuel) are lower than theirs, and we have a superior product.

We also have customer loyalty that has been elusive to them in the Denver market.

 

[The Victors]

Just keep in mind that if they are caught using this information as a competitive advantage than Gary Kelly goes to prison...

Thanks for the update law and order re-run loser

 

[Porch]

WTF is wrong with these MORONS!!!!! FAPA PLEASE GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER AND QUIT THIS BS.

 

[OurMoney1]

Southwest brothers just keep it clean. You are all gentleman, dont lose sight of this fact. As is always the case leadership from both sides has determined individuals futures, but now is not the time to insult and wish ill will. So they go to Republic, so be it, the cards were dealt, they didnt like them so they walked from the table. It is their choice no matter how poor you percieve the choice to be. The Democratic process once again danced with fate and we have an outcome. Be civil, we are all professionals, and set an example for others to follow.

 

[shagadelic]

This is drawing to a close rapidly. I would sure love to see us acquire F9 as a Denver guy, but not under the terms FAPA seems to want to dictate. If you don't want the job security and pay increase that comes with being hired at the most financially stable airline in the country, then pack sand and enjoy your regional. I'm over this. This will go down as the most monumentally stupid thing a pilot union has done. Good luck.