SWA/FL Codeshare

[Whataburger]

Well, I hear they have lots of steers and the other thing in those cities. Maybe I'll buy me some cows and start a farm while I'm roaming the Western TX range. Isn't that where they filmed "Brokeback Mountain"?

Say what? There is no such place as "Western Texas." It's West Texas.

When we chose to be our own country, more than once, the locals referenced very distinct areas of the great Republic.

East Texas
West Texas
South Texas
North Texas
Panhandle.

Damn Gina.

 

[Lear70]

Say what? There is no such place as "Western Texas." It's West Texas.

When we chose to be our own country, more than once, the locals referenced very distinct areas of the great Republic.

East Texas
West Texas
South Texas
North Texas
Panhandle.

Damn Gina.

My mistake. You think I'd know better after living in the mid-cities for 3 years.

 

[Dash Power]

I recognize both those documents. Those made the rounds around here also. Too bad you can't find the one that gave you grave concern because I just don't see and "take this or your unemployed" type of statements. What I see is in your first letter actually quite a bit of reinsurance right under what you wanted to show.

Someone must have the exact letter of which you are referring. I would really like to see it so maybe I can have a better understanding of where the AT pilots are coming from.

Thanks.

I have to say that unless someone shows some other document saying Gary told the AT guys to take it or leave it, it damages some credibility here.

 

[humveedriver]

Say what? There is no such place as "Western Texas." It's West Texas.

When we chose to be our own country, more than once, the locals referenced very distinct areas of the great Republic.

East Texas
West Texas
South Texas
North Texas
Panhandle.
Hill Country

Damn Gina.

You forgot one!

 

[humveedriver]

I have to say that unless someone shows some other document saying Gary told the AT guys to take it or leave it, it damages some credibility here.

I just didn't think to save a FLICA memo from over a year ago, that would have saved my FI credibility. If you don't have credibilty on anonymous message boards, what's left?

 

[Lear70]

I have to say that unless someone shows some other document saying Gary told the AT guys to take it or leave it, it damages some credibility here.

Credibility damaged? Only in your mind.

Southwest never put that EXACT statement in writing, knowing they could get sued for OUTRIGHT violation of Federal Law.

What they did was do everything BUT that in writing, telling pilots in writing that they were investigating their options in NOT integrating the operation, while telling us very openly in negotiations that they would, in fact, NOT integrate the two airlines if we didn't agree to their terms, all the while knowing that all they had to do was strongly SUGGEST they would do that publicly and our pilots would capitulate, and also knowing that by outright telling our negotiators and MEC leadership, that we'd be opening ourselves to lawsuit by not putting it out to vote.

Which is all exactly what happened.

Again, absent that threat, the pilots wouldn't have started recalls and we NEVER would have sent out SIA 2. You think it's a coincidence that the recall effort started after that letter from GK? Just wouldn't have happened.

The AirTran pilots know EXACTLY what happened, what your management representatives did, what they said in open road shows when asked about non-integration "Plan B", then right before the vote, sent out another veiled threat in writing which said "If you agree to this deal, we GUARANTEE integration", which leaves the other side of the coin, "Shoot it down and we go with Plan B", which was what they had been saying in the road shows.

You can believe whatever you like. The AirTran pilots voted out of fear for their jobs. The. Fu*king. End. Twist it however you want (and I know you will), I'm done. The AirTran pilots know well what happened, and I'm pretty much through giving a rat sh*t whether a small percentage of you SWA pilots believe it or not, most of you get it, and that's enough for me. It's over, your management played the pilots here masterfully, and our pilots gave up the right to go to arbitration because we were too scared to take the risk with the threats, both written and verbal, put out in the open.

All of which is moot at this point, except the lessons learned.

 

[PCL_128]

There's only one thing here that Lear is wrong on. He said that the company claimed that they had 100 people working on "Plan B." In reality, they claimed that it was 500 people working on "Plan B." Because, of course, 500 sounds more threatening. The Golden Rule and all that.

 

[General Lee]

I have to say that unless someone shows some other document saying Gary told the AT guys to take it or leave it, it damages some credibility here.

Yeah, everyone always documents exactly what they say to everyone.... Is that a court reporter following you? Idiot....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[canyonblue]

He said that the company claimed that they had 100 people working on "Plan B."

Plan B? That was FO's starting engines, what did you think it was?

 

[canyonblue]

Hasn't happen yet. We have like 0 tranny airplanes over here.

I flew one recently. Had a single display for the Standby Instruments, and a slice of bologna from PCL marking a page in the QRH.

 

[Dash Power]

Credibility damaged? Only in your mind.

Southwest never put that EXACT statement in writing, knowing they could get sued for OUTRIGHT violation of Federal Law.

What they did was do everything BUT that in writing, telling pilots in writing that they were investigating their options in NOT integrating the operation, while telling us very openly in negotiations that they would, in fact, NOT integrate the two airlines if we didn't agree to their terms, all the while knowing that all they had to do was strongly SUGGEST they would do that publicly and our pilots would capitulate, and also knowing that by outright telling our negotiators and MEC leadership, that we'd be opening ourselves to lawsuit by not putting it out to vote.

Which is all exactly what happened.

Again, absent that threat, the pilots wouldn't have started recalls and we NEVER would have sent out SIA 2. You think it's a coincidence that the recall effort started after that letter from GK? Just wouldn't have happened.

The AirTran pilots know EXACTLY what happened, what your management representatives did, what they said in open road shows when asked about non-integration "Plan B", then right before the vote, sent out another veiled threat in writing which said "If you agree to this deal, we GUARANTEE integration", which leaves the other side of the coin, "Shoot it down and we go with Plan B", which was what they had been saying in the road shows.

You can believe whatever you like. The AirTran pilots voted out of fear for their jobs. The. Fu*king. End. Twist it however you want (and I know you will), I'm done. The AirTran pilots know well what happened, and I'm pretty much through giving a rat sh*t whether a small percentage of you SWA pilots believe it or not, most of you get it, and that's enough for me. It's over, your management played the pilots here masterfully, and our pilots gave up the right to go to arbitration because we were too scared to take the risk with the threats, both written and verbal, put out in the open.

All of which is moot at this point, except the lessons learned.

You are the one that said there was a letter from GK to the AT pilots that said "take this or you are unemployed". If there is such a letter then produce it.

Everyone understands your concerns about integration. I read that there are reasonable limits, so far.

No one got played. But if that is how you find your happy place then press on.

 

[Dash Power]

Yeah, everyone always documents exactly what they say to everyone.... Is that a court reporter following you? Idiot....


Bye Bye---General Lee

Lear70 said there was a letter saying such.

Now who is the idiot?

 

[Dash Power]

I just didn't think to save a FLICA memo from over a year ago, that would have saved my FI credibility. If you don't have credibilty on anonymous message boards, what's left?

Someone must have. Letters like what is stated I am certain is saved over others that have been shared here.

 

[Lear70]

Plan B? That was FO's starting engines, what did you think it was?

*chuckle*

I'm just over hearing people say there weren't any threats. Irritates me that people try to twist the truth that just because something wasn't overt, that it didn't happen. They had to be legal, thus what was written was vague but got their point across, and what was in person and not "on the record" was very direct.

You guys got threatened that arbitration would be allowed and it would go poorly for you, so you guys ratified it, even though some of you would liked to have fought that fight.

We got threatened with our jobs, so we ratified it, even though some of us would like to have fought that fight.

There's really not much more to say. We're here. Let's move on.

 

[Dash Power]

*chuckle*

I'm just over hearing people say there weren't any threats. Irritates me that people try to twist the truth that just because something wasn't overt, that it didn't happen. They had to be legal, thus what was written was vague but got their point across, and what was in person and not "on the record" was very direct.

You guys got threatened that arbitration would be allowed and it would go poorly for you, so you guys ratified it, even though some of you would liked to have fought that fight.

We got threatened with our jobs, so we ratified it, even though some of us would like to have fought that fight.

There's really not much more to say. We're here. Let's move on.

Dead, dead, dead wrong. Like you, we were threatened with nothing by anyone.

 

[Lear70]

Dead, dead, dead wrong. Like you, we were threatened with nothing by anyone.

You have a very Merry Christmas, mkay?

 

[canyonblue]

*chuckle*

I'm just over hearing people say there weren't any threats.

I understand, I only wonder that if so many believed SWA was so evil that they would actually carry through with that threat, why would they believe arbitration would not carry a few surprises from the same evil place. I guess the point I am making is, if there was not such a threat would the vote be any different, and if it would of, would SWA Management be any less evil if it went to arbitration.

 

[Dash Power]

You have a very Merry Christmas, mkay?

You too!! Although Using something as sacred with sarcasm is a true display of character.

 

[SWAdude]

I understand, I only wonder that if so many believed SWA was so evil that they would actually carry through with that threat, why would they believe arbitration would not carry a few surprises from the same evil place. I guess the point I am making is, if there was not such a threat would the vote be any different, and if it would of, would SWA Management be any less evil if it went to arbitration.

+1

Well said.

 

[General Lee]

I understand, I only wonder that if so many believed SWA was so evil that they would actually carry through with that threat, why would they believe arbitration would not carry a few surprises from the same evil place. I guess the point I am making is, if there was not such a threat would the vote be any different, and if it would of, would SWA Management be any less evil if it went to arbitration.

Ummmm, you don't seem to understand arbitration. A guy, or a group of them, listen to each side (union people) talk about what each side is bringing to the table, etc. Then, they decide, without any outside influence. They are getting paid a fee, they don't have bias, they are called NEUTRALS. Then, they give the award, and an explanation. If people are upset, they are upset at the arbitrators, not their own people or management. If you think SWA had "all the goods" for this merger, the arbitrators would probably see it that way also, and would have awarded accordingly. It's just that easy, and your people decided against it. That was bad.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SWAdude]

Ummmm, you don't seem to understand arbitration. A guy, or a group of them, listen to each side (union people) talk about what each side is bringing to the table, etc. Then, they decide, without any outside influence. They are getting paid a fee, they don't have bias, they are called NEUTRALS. Then, they give the award, and an explanation. If people are upset, they are upset at the arbitrators, not their own people or management. If you think SWA had "all the goods" for this merger, the arbitrators would probably see it that way also, and would have awarded accordingly. It's just that easy, and your people decided against it. That was bad.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

You clearly didn't get the point.

 

[Lear70]

You too!! Although Using something as sacred with sarcasm is a true display of character.

It wasn't sarcasm. It was irritation and simply wishing you a Merry Christmas to end the conversation. But way to twist that around into something it's not, as well. What was that about a display of character?

 

[Whataburger]

You forgot one!

Very true. The Californian carpet baggers added that one right?

 

[SWA/FO]

Sorry didn't realize 9 aircraft was such a huge part of your "healthy" airlines' fleet.

 

[jonjuan]

Ummmm, you don't seem to understand arbitration. A guy, or a group of them, listen to each side (union people) talk about what each side is bringing to the table, etc. Then, they decide, without any outside influence. They are getting paid a fee, they don't have bias, they are called NEUTRALS. Then, they give the award, and an explanation. If people are upset, they are upset at the arbitrators, not their own people or management. If you think SWA had "all the goods" for this merger, the arbitrators would probably see it that way also, and would have awarded accordingly. It's just that easy, and your people decided against it. That was bad.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

65 posts the last 48 hours and General Ummmmmmmm sets a new 2 day record. Probably start all your radio calls with "Ummmmmmmm."

 

[Dash Power]

It wasn't sarcasm. It was irritation and simply wishing you a Merry Christmas to end the conversation. But way to twist that around into something it's not, as well. What was that about a display of character?

For the love of god.......

Whatever dude.

 

[Lear70]

For the love of god.......

Whatever dude.

Yep. You captured my thoughts exactly.

 

[madjack]

ARBITRATION: A panel of judges takes a look at what each group brings to the table and then sticks to precedent...Judges don't like to change 30 years of merger/acq precedent and the precedent has favored the pilot group from the the smaller, acquired carrier...no thanks...we get it AAI wanted SWA seniority, pay, seats and benefits...SWA pilots view AAI as a "less than desirable" career airline...the fact that the AAI pilots were willing to strike in 2009 indicates they felt the same. Many AAI pilots had applications at SWA and those that have transitioned over are happy to be here and realize how good a job at SWA is vs AAI.

Go ahead and gnash those teeth and claim corporate subterfuge and deceit...but the truth of the matter is an arbitrated result based on precedent would have been a collosal windfall for AAI and a complete injustice to all SWA pilots who worked their entire careers for a job at SWA, started at the bottom and earned their seniority/seat at SWA.

AAI pilots who byatch and moan will be viewed by their RSW peers as ungrateful whiners, who received a chance to work at a great company with relatively little cost of entry...and are complaining that they couldn't gain more over their coworkers...

 

[fletch717]

ARBITRATION: A panel of judges takes a look at what each group brings to the table and then sticks to precedent...Judges don't like to change 30 years of merger/acq precedent and the precedent has favored the pilot group from the the smaller, acquired carrier...no thanks...we get it AAI wanted SWA seniority, pay, seats and benefits...SWA pilots view AAI as a "less than desirable" career airline...the fact that the AAI pilots were willing to strike in 2009 indicates they felt the same. Many AAI pilots had applications at SWA and those that have transitioned over are happy to be here and realize how good a job at SWA is vs AAI.

Go ahead and gnash those teeth and claim corporate subterfuge and deceit...but the truth of the matter is an arbitrated result based on precedent would have been a collosal windfall for AAI and a complete injustice to all SWA pilots who worked their entire careers for a job at SWA, started at the bottom and earned their seniority/seat at SWA.



AAI pilots who byatch and moan will be viewed by their RSW peers as ungrateful whiners, who received a chance to work at a great company with relatively little cost of entry...and are complaining that they couldn't gain more over their coworkers...

I know, of all the nerve. To expect to be treated as an equal. we are a bunch of greedy worthless bags of S$&t. I sorry I thought There was a chance I could be as good as a RSW pilot. I promise not to ever dream that big again sir. Maybe some day you can show us how real pilots fly. Keep drinking the coolaid, pain is comming your way soon. I'm going to laugh while you spoiled babies cry when GK spanks you hard.

 

[ATLplt]

Go ahead and gnash those teeth and claim corporate subterfuge and deceit...but the truth of the matter is an arbitrated result based on precedent would have been a collosal windfall for AAI and a complete injustice to all SWA pilots who worked their entire careers for a job at SWA, started at the bottom and earned their seniority/seat at SWA.

AAI pilots who byatch and moan will be viewed by their RSW peers as ungrateful whiners, who received a chance to work at a great company with relatively little cost of entry...and are complaining that they couldn't gain more over their coworkers...

There's that ugly ungrateful word again.

I just laughed my ass off out loud. Awesome stuff.