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SWA Attempts To Steal Routes - Denied

SWA Bubba

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Prevent? HA. Laughable. United gave SWA 19 city pairs out of EWR with the merger cause they bitched so much to the DOT. And a clue for you here, just because you have an airline, it doesn't mean you get to fly where you want, when you want, even at others expense no matter how much you jump up and down and cry.

United "gave" SWA nothing. They sold us some EWR slots of their own volition--part of changing their business, I suppose--and in addition were forced to divest other slots as a condition of their merger with Continental (being a slot controlled airport, and all). The government then auctioned off the slots, and SWA bid the most. Sounds like normal business operations to me.

As far as "jumping un and down and crying," you need to look in a mirror. (or just reread the earlier HOU discussion regarding Southwest working its own business model at HOU, and Unical whining and crying and trying to interfere, so as to prevent actual competition.)

Bubba
 

canyonblue

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And that finishes the argument. Can't compete in IAH, pull out, set up your own little isolated sand box in HOU so no one else can play with you, whine to the DOT cause another airline has 2 routes and presto, a route appears. Now go back again and tell how you compete?

Are you really this stupid? :confused:
 

Flopgut

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And that finishes the argument. Can't compete in IAH, pull out, set up your own little isolated sand box in HOU so no one else can play with you, whine to the DOT cause another airline has 2 routes and presto, a route appears. Now go back again and tell how you compete?

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Are you really this stupid? :confused:

^^^^^^^^^^^^
He's absolutely right!! There's nothing "stupid" about it. Anyone paying close attention to SWA recent antics in Houston realizes this is not SWA's best work. In fact it's really sloppy. (Retreated from IAH, couldn't grow HOU meaningfully/organically, bailed on hurricane relief, begged an FIS be created for you, then only built 5 gates, BS promise to the City for $/jobs/cheap tickets. On top of all that, your have to try and steal a slot to Mexico City!!!) Looks like you're hitting the panic button guys.

You all better be ready to do more than simply think you're going to feed off the big $ flying out of IAH. Volaris, Viva Aerobus and Interjet have big plans. They're looking at you like you're looking at UAL. Youre more vulnerable to their competition than we are to yours. (You've been at HOU 40+ years and CAL still grew a great airline out of IAH) SWA is enormously higher cost, those airlines have a better airplane for the more $ routes, and they have nicer cabin crew.
 

SWA Bubba

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^^^^^^^^^^^^


^^^^^^^^^^^^
He's absolutely right!! There's nothing "stupid" about it. Anyone paying close attention to SWA recent antics in Houston realizes this is not SWA's best work. In fact it's really sloppy. (Retreated from IAH, couldn't grow HOU meaningfully/organically, bailed on hurricane relief, begged an FIS be created for you, then only built 5 gates, BS promise to the City for $/jobs/cheap tickets. On top of all that, your have to try and steal a slot to Mexico City!!!) Looks like you're hitting the panic button guys.

Wow. Literally the only thing that you ranted about that's true, is that we are building a 5-gate international terminal. Nothing else.

Panic button? Please.

You all better be ready to do more than simply think you're going to feed off the big $ flying out of IAH. Volaris, Viva Aerobus and Interjet have big plans. They're looking at you like you're looking at UAL. Youre more vulnerable to their competition than we are to yours. (You've been at HOU 40+ years and CAL still grew a great airline out of IAH) SWA is enormously higher cost, those airlines have a better airplane for the more $ routes, and they have nicer cabin crew.

Well, great then! As you say, United has nothing to fear from Southwest; we're just gonna dry up and blow away--any day now. So maybe you can stop trying to interfere with our business plans, as if you're afraid of the competition, then. You know? Run your own damn business, instead of trying to run ours, for a change. That would be refreshing.

Bubba
 

redflyer65

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You all better be ready to do more than simply think you're going to feed off the big $ flying out of IAH. Volaris, Viva Aerobus and Interjet have big plans. They're looking at you like you're looking at UAL. Youre more vulnerable to their competition than we are to yours. (You've been at HOU 40+ years and CAL still grew a great airline out of IAH) SWA is enormously higher cost, those airlines have a better airplane for the more $ routes, and they have nicer cabin crew.


How out of touch can you and Ex driver be?

Ex doesn't understand the history of SW and it appears like you don't get it either Flop.

Let me help you out..

We fly the most domestic passengers by far. We have plenty...no wait, a ton of passengers that fly SW and they want to go to these near international destinations. Guess what? We'll take them.

This summer we'll fly 3,800 flights everyday. We are just connecting the dots between these 'new' cities and everywhere else we go everyday. We'll be able to connect these passengers to cities that would have cost them much more on the legacies.

Volaris and Interjet? Really? You think we should be worried about them? Your delusional ideas are showing thru yet again. Volaris goes to around 20 US cities. Interjet goes to 5. Yes, FIVE.

We are expensive? Again, your clueless. Our CASM on the 800 is around Spirit and Allegiant levels. Far, far lower than UAL.

Cabin crews are nicer? That's subjective but most of the US population Luv our crews. That attack is actually pretty comical coming from a guy that flies at UAL. Talk about cabin crews with disdain for the actual passengers that they carry. Wow.

Keep throwing that poo Flop. You're sooo far from getting anything legitimate to stick....because all you have is weak BS.
 
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FurloughedAgain

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We fly the most domestic passengers by far.


I keep seeing this and I'm not sure, but I don't think that it reflects the regional partners.

Meaning, yes we fly more domestic passengers than Delta... but I doubt we fly more than Delta + Delta Connection.

We fly more domestic passengers than American... but I doubt we fly more than American + American Eagle (envoy, republic, Skywest, mesa, etc...etc...)

Their networks have a larger presence because so much of their flying is outsourced. I don't have any data to back this up. Just guessing based on the size of Delta's operation in ATL or American's at DFW that we couldn't possibly be as big as they are.
 

redflyer65

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Not sure about the Regionals either FA, but when I last looked we came close to flying as many passengers as Delta has total..including domestic and international.

In 2014 we carried 136 million passengers. Keeps increasing every year with more departures like this summer and the more seats (the -800).
 

SpauldingSmails

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Systemwide domestic and international (incl. Connection) Delta carried 171,350,030 passengers in 2014.

I'm not sure what the breakdown is but obviously the large bump from regional feed is mostly domestic.

news.delta.com/2015-01-05-Delta-Reports-Financial-and-Operating-Performance-for-December-2014
 

General Lee

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I keep seeing this and I'm not sure, but I don't think that it reflects the regional partners.

Meaning, yes we fly more domestic passengers than Delta... but I doubt we fly more than Delta + Delta Connection.

We fly more domestic passengers than American... but I doubt we fly more than American + American Eagle (envoy, republic, Skywest, mesa, etc...etc...)

Their networks have a larger presence because so much of their flying is outsourced. I don't have any data to back this up. Just guessing based on the size of Delta's operation in ATL or American's at DFW that we couldn't possibly be as big as they are.


Uhhhh, DL mainline has expanded their presence in ATL dramatically since the arrival of the 717s, and the parking of hundreds of 50 seat RJs. Terminal C used to be exclusively RJs, and now 717s fill the North side of the Concourse.

AA in DFW has received new A319s that have taken back previous mainline routes that were handed to Eagle CR7s after 9-11. Eagle (Envoy now) is in the process of parking tons of 37 and 50 seaters at this time.

The addition of more mainline planes and the parking of 50 seat RJs means less outsourcing. DL has hired over 1000 pilots in the last year because of expansion, not retirements.




Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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HowardBorden

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Uhhhh, DL mainline has expanded their presence in ATL dramatically since the arrival of the 717s, and the parking of hundreds of 50 seat RJs. Terminal C used to be exclusively RJs, and now 717s fill the North side of the Concourse.

AA in DFW has received new A319s that have taken back previous mainline routes that were handed to Eagle CR7s after 9-11. Eagle (Envoy now) is in the process of parking tons of 37 and 50 seaters at this time.

The addition of more mainline planes and the parking of 50 seat RJs means less outsourcing. DL has hired over 1000 pilots in the last year because of expansion, not Retirements.

Soutwest Airlines yearly flight totals: 1,259,615.
American Airlines plus U.S.Arways: 1,101,935
Delta Air Lines yearly flight totals: 977,470.
Express Jet yearly flight totals: 724,525.
American Airlines yearly flight totals: 693,135.
United Airlines yearly flight totals: 656,270

As of 12/15/2014. These numbers reflect SWA at 3,451 flights per day which rises to 3,800 this summer.
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/...offer-at-least-3800-flights-next-summer.html/
 

General Lee

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Soutwest Airlines yearly flight totals: 1,259,615.
American Airlines plus U.S.Arways: 1,101,935
Delta Air Lines yearly flight totals: 977,470.
Express Jet yearly flight totals: 724,525.
American Airlines yearly flight totals: 693,135.
United Airlines yearly flight totals: 656,270

As of 12/15/2014. These numbers reflect SWA at 3,451 flights per day which rises to 3,800 this summer.
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/...offer-at-least-3800-flights-next-summer.html/


That's great Howie. I didn't refute his fact that SWA may fly more pax than DL or AA, rather that there has been a decrease in RJ outsourcing and both airlines have added smaller mainline aircraft (717 and 319) to do so.

So, why is your hiring window open again Howie? Not enough qualified applicants the first time?



Bye Bye---General Lee
 

Flopgut

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How out of touch can you and Ex driver be?

Ex doesn't understand the history of SW and it appears like you don't get it either Flop.

Let me help you out..

We fly the most domestic passengers by far. We have plenty...no wait, a ton of passengers that fly SW and they want to go to these near international destinations. Guess what? We'll take them.

This summer we'll fly 3,800 flights everyday. We are just connecting the dots between these 'new' cities and everywhere else we go everyday. We'll be able to connect these passengers to cities that would have cost them much more on the legacies.

Volaris and Interjet? Really? You think we should be worried about them? Your delusional ideas are showing thru yet again. Volaris goes to around 20 US cities. Interjet goes to 5. Yes, FIVE.

We are expensive? Again, your clueless. Our CASM on the 800 is around Spirit and Allegiant levels. Far, far lower than UAL.

Cabin crews are nicer? That's subjective but most of the US population Luv our crews. That attack is actually pretty comical coming from a guy that flies at UAL. Talk about cabin crews with disdain for the actual passengers that they carry. Wow.

Keep throwing that poo Flop. You're sooo far from getting anything legitimate to stick....because all you have is weak BS.

I don't need all this verbiage out of you Red. I have a different opinion of your company, that's all. I'm not brainwashed by a bunch of cheerleading and overcompensation taught me by my employer. AND I look at the big picture. Consider the positions of Braniff, American, Ft Worth, Houston, Continental, Mexicos airlines. all people and companies. NOT just my own situation, like every one of you SWA people do in every possible way thru history. I remember 25 years of very low pay (pensionless PFT) and then about the last 15 here SWA has benefited from negative things that happened to others. That's it pal. You didn't really earn it at all. Where you've had to recently stand up to a strong legacy, you couldn't.
 

Flopgut

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Run your own damn business, instead of trying to run ours, for a change. That would be refreshing.

Bubba

What would also be refreshing if you could own up to your employers' own crummy behavior. How is it UNICAL opposition to abandoning the established marketplace for Houston international flights is "interfering" with SWA, when your own airline goes to the DOJ and insists one of UNICALS MEX slots be given to them (quite arrogantly I might add)!!! Who's really interfering with who?! Consider that the alternative to your attempted thievery was initiated by UAL and accepted as a better more competitive solution.

This is a bigger black eye for SWA than you realize.
 
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FurloughedAgain

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I still don't see why everybody gets their panties in a wad. We are all just pilots, working for the man like highly compensated, blue collar, assembly line workers. I've worked for three major airlines (four if you count AirTran). USAir, JetBlue, and Southwest and here is some bad news: they're all the friggan same. Same whining about scheduling. Same whining about the pace of contract negotiations. Same senior screwing the junior.

Who cares what management does in the political theatre to gain more market share? Has nothing to do with me. I don't cheer when my company succeeds or cry when they fail. This is just a job. Go to work. Fly. Go home. Collect pay check. Repeat as necessary until furloughed again.

Why you guys get all wound up about this garbage is beyond me.
 

desolo

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Best post so far. In the end we are just labor, a number if you will. Enjoy life, do your job to the best of your ability, and enjoy your family, because in the end, none of this matters much.
 

redflyer65

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I don't need all this verbiage out of you Red. I have a different opinion of your company, that's all. I'm not brainwashed by a bunch of cheerleading and overcompensation taught me by my employer. AND I look at the big picture. Consider the positions of Braniff, American, Ft Worth, Houston, Continental, Mexicos airlines. all people and companies. NOT just my own situation, like every one of you SWA people do in every possible way thru history. I remember 25 years of very low pay (pensionless PFT) and then about the last 15 here SWA has benefited from negative things that happened to others. That's it pal. You didn't really earn it at all. Where you've had to recently stand up to a strong legacy, you couldn't.

You don't need the verbiage after you throw out a bunch of BS that's not based in reality? You can have any view you want about SW, I really don't care....until you start providing ideas that aren't based in fact (which you do daily).

I blew a huge hole in your argument and you just duck and cover. Got it.

SW has posted quarterly profits EVERY year for over 41 years. Plenty of accolades. UAL has left a swath of destruction in the last 30 years to both it's employees and folks it's done business with. Night and day my friend. I understand if you don't like SW, that's your right. But when you come out of the blue with false accusations and innuendo....you have no credibility.

I hope you can get your own house in order, honestly. To go from Glenn Tilton to Smisek is like going from Lav dumper, to Lav dumper with a face shield. Here's and interesting article..


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-fagin/why-uniteds-jeff-smisek-i_b_5249902.html

I like this part the best..

There's so much animosity toward Mr. Smisek on behalf of United employees, they've created a website where they "air" their grievances and have coined the phrase, "It's all Jeff'd Up!" -- meaning the situation is a complete clusterf**k. (Personally, when your employees invent a term for the Hipster Dictionary to reference what an awful job you're doing, it's at least time for Undercover Boss.)

Good luck buddy!!
 

DUBLINFLYER

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You're just a number in the big scheme of things, just be thankful you have a job, collect a decent pay check (depending on your position and company) and are not on the street.
 

FurloughedAgain

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You're just a number in the big scheme of things, just be thankful you have a job, collect a decent pay check (depending on your position and company) and are not on the street.


Yup!

I loved my first major airline. I was literally in love with it. Stickers on my car, rah rah, bled midnight blue, inflatable Rakesh Gangwal in the bedroom, Stephen Wolf tattoo on my left cheek kind of love. Once Rakesh dumped me it took me a while to move on. After a while I realized that any relationship you have with your airline is dysfunctional. She will leave you with nothing in favor of a sexy new merger, or bankruptcy filing. It's best not to get too attached.

My company and I are square every two weeks on the 5th and the 20th. Either of us can terminate the relationship at any given time.

It's purely platonic. I provide a service. They pay me for that service.

This isn't a football team for crying out loud. Put the jersey away before you embarrass yourself.
 

redflyer65

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Yup!

I loved my first major airline.

Who would that be?

Jersey? Hardly. Just talking about the history of the airline. It's solid and looks rock solid for the future.

I'm up 300% in the stock and I think it's going higher. Is it utopia? Nope. Could be better. Believe me, I'm all about working hard and following up on the 5th and 20th. We have a good CBA but there's a new sheriff in town and it needs to be improved. SW made 1.4 Billion dollars last year and will come close to doubling that for 2015. We should see some improvements.
 

FurloughedAgain

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Who would that be?

It was USAir. (I thought the Gangwal and Wolf cracks were pretty transparent but I forget that some people have had limited exposure to the airlines.)

We have a good CBA

We have a CBA that is deficient in a number of areas because we have a pilot group that is almost solely focused on W2 at the expense of quality of life. (Don't believe me? ELITT is great as long as you like working weekends...)

Reserve work rules are onerous at best. No long call. No early release on the last day even if unassigned. No passing. Can't get released from a deadhead.

For line holders No dropping of trips or splitting trips in domicile. There is no reason (I can think of) why open time is removed from ELITT and locked three days prior to a trip.

No paid parking (?!) no paid uniforms (?!) no crew meals during international turns i/e long duty days during which you are not permitted to leave the airplane. (?!) Pilots expected to babysit an aircraft on ground power until the next crew arrives for no additional compensation. Pilots may be asked to deadhead in the jumpseat on certain flights...

You are right. There are a lot of improvements that should be made. Don't get me wrong. It is a good place to work and I am glad that they are successful. But let's not make it out to be panacea. We should benchmark the contract against our peers in areas other than just the section dealing with pay rates.
 
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