SWA/ATA revisited

[Tanker Clown]

For all the ATA guys who think that a staple is a crummy deal: If it's such a bad deal, why not take your services and walk. Getting stapled is one option. But, this is America, and you can always take your ball and go home. You have a certain skill set that would be valuable many places, not just at the bottom of the SWA seniority list.

 

[Dan Roman]

Dave at al,

I like all the ATA pilots that I have met on our jump seats. I think you have a great group of guys who have gotten a bad deal. The question in my mind is this. What do the SWA guys gain if we were to buy ATA and integrate the pilots? It seems like a junior schedule at SWA is better than a senior one at ATA. So if you were pay protected and placed on the bottom of the list is that unfair? Fair and equitable is the language in the bill. What does that mean to you? From my perspective as a mid level FO all I do is lose if ATA guys get placed above me in an integration. I have nothing to gain in this case. I really don't mean to flame. Its hard to express that in text only.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'm a little blown away that a SWA pilot doesn't see the problem with absorbing ATA's routes but can't understand why the pilots should come with them. What you gain at SWA is a foundation for expansion that was created by the ATA pilots. It would benefit SWA by creating a much bigger "pie" why would you not think the pilots who created this opportunity shouldn't share in this with you?

 

[OK3]

Dan,

you misunderstood my post. I am not questioning that pilots come with equipment, I am only referring to how they are integrated. As far as the world domination theme and more hiring, it is pretty intangible compared to seniority and pay. Maybe SWA uses the certificate to fly all over the world and hire a bunch more pilots, maybe not. I would hesitate to think it it is fair that I may get a bump down the road from an integration; while another pilot gets placed senior to me with a large pay raise. I don't want this to come across as throwing anyone under the bus. I am honestly asking what ATA guys think is fair.

 

[ATADave]

Dear Ass Clown,


A. WN bought Morris in December of ’93 (15 years ago)
B. I don’t recall the Morris Pilots being unionized
C. The days of pay protection (CA pay for FO work) are probably long gone.
D. I don’t give a red rat’s a$$ about A, B, and C above.

"Maybe the best they should do is offer a chance at an interview."

Maybe as long as you don’t pose a danger to yourself or others you won’t be institutionalized.

We’re not selling a house. We’re selling a business. This business comes with a business license and employees.

Tell us more about yourself Ass Clown. Is that a picture of yourself in your avatar? Do you have a dog in this fight? You were an AF officer weren’t you?

Dear OK3,

Your concerns are completely legitimate and not at all inflammatory.

Likewise Sir; I have felt the same about your guys that I have met many times in our jumpseats. We are however a bitter and angry group. Many of us feel we have little left to lose. Half of our once-proud fleet is gone. Over half of our employees, likewise, are gone. We have witnessed first-hand the lives and careers of our brothers ripped to shreds by an incompetent management group. Men so motivated make better friends than enemies.

ATA Fan above probably did a better job explaining the benefits of a union of our companies, but the simple answer is growth benefits everyone. I don’t think you guys are gonna’ give up PHX & LAS to Hawaii, and they don’t make a 73 that will do this. It wouldn’t surprise me if the deal came with some larger airplanes. Again, benefiting everyone. All movement has been slowed by age 65, but you will upgrade faster as a result of the expansion associated with our merger. In the mean time, just until we get settled-in, please stop drooling on our airplanes.

Respectfully,
Dave

 

[OK3]

Dave,

I understand your point. I don't wish anyone pain or misfortune.

If it happens we'll all do our best to make it work. Good luck to us all with 110 oil and a recession.

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

Just remember people, He who has it grand today could be bending over tomorrow. Treat the pilots as you would want to be treated if the tables were turned. My 2 cents

 

[ATADave]

Tailwinds OK3,

Should this transpire, we'll look forward to flyin' with you guys.

Perhaps we'll take, say, 9 FA's (yours) and I'll show ya' around Budapest or Frankfurt.

Dave

 

[Tanker Clown]

Dear Ass Clown,


A. WN bought Morris in December of ’93 (15 years ago)
B. I don’t recall the Morris Pilots being unionized
C. The days of pay protection (CA pay for FO work) are probably long gone.
D. I don’t give a red rat’s a$$ about A, B, and C above.

"Maybe the best they should do is offer a chance at an interview."

Maybe as long as you don’t pose a danger to yourself or others you won’t be institutionalized.

We’re not selling a house. We’re selling a business. This business comes with a business license and employees.

Tell us more about yourself Ass Clown. Is that a picture of yourself in your avatar? Do you have a dog in this fight? You were an AF officer weren’t you?

Dear OK3,

Your concerns are completely legitimate and not at all inflammatory.

Likewise Sir; I have felt the same about your guys that I have met many times in our jumpseats. We are however a bitter and angry group. Many of us feel we have little left to lose. Half of our once-proud fleet is gone. Over half of our employees, likewise, are gone. We have witnessed first-hand the lives and careers of our brothers ripped to shreds by an incompetent management group. Men so motivated make better friends than enemies.

ATA Fan above probably did a better job explaining the benefits of a union of our companies, but the simple answer is growth benefits everyone. I don’t think you guys are gonna’ give up PHX & LAS to Hawaii, and they don’t make a 73 that will do this. It wouldn’t surprise me if the deal came with some larger airplanes. Again, benefiting everyone. All movement has been slowed by age 65, but you will upgrade faster as a result of the expansion associated with our merger. In the mean time, just until we get settled-in, please stop drooling on our airplanes.

Respectfully,
Dave

Dave,

You're never going to make it past the SWA interview with this attitude.

 

[G. Costanza]

Seth, you are being a cocky MoFo, and you are working for the losing team. Tone it down!

 

[MTV]

If the ATA pilots and aircraft were merged into Southwest how would any SWA pilot be held back if pilots come with their own aircraft?

I believe part of the ATA sched. service includes 757s, should the SWA guys take the left seat of those too on International ops?