SWA and SWAPA Negotiating -800s

[Whataburger]

Alaska Airlines - Great airline, profitable, happy employees, same pay for all 737s.

Delta Airlines - Decade of losses, bankruptcy. More pay for same type.

 

[Whataburger]

I'll give you my "The Best Pilot's deserve the Best Contract" sticker, See how that worked out for us?

I can also throw in a few ALPA stickers as well!

KBB

What's your opinion of Bulleit?

 

[Full of LUV]

Wow...

Alaska Airlines - Great airline, profitable, happy employees, same pay for all 737s.

Delta Airlines - Decade of losses, bankruptcy. More pay for same type.

You really believe that is an apples to apples comparison? If you don't want different pay for different A/C, why not just negotiate an incremental pay increase for all as the 800's replace the smaller planes? Something that is spread around all the pilots that represents the additional revenue that means increased productivity.
Luv

 

[wscrj]

Alaska Airlines - Great airline, profitable, happy employees, same pay for all 737s.

Delta Airlines - Decade of losses, bankruptcy. More pay for same type.

What on earth gave you the impression that Alaska pilots, or employees for that matter, are happy?

Furloughs on the street
Staffing cut to the bone marrow
Nearly all trades denied
Sick use hate-o-grams from Company & CP's office
Management types actually posting "look for a new career" if we don't like the way things are.

Oh yeah, and 80 some over 60 types with 93 guys on the street.

Who exactly did you speak with when you formulated the opinion that we are happy?

 

[GuppyWN]

The cappy and the FO on the SEA/OAK flight last week seemed happy. All they could talk about was the extra flying they were doing!

Gup

 

[Hobiehawker]

Why would any airline pilot accept more responsibly without additional compensation?

 

[wscrj]

The cappy and the FO on the SEA/OAK flight last week seemed happy. All they could talk about was the extra flying they were doing!

Gup

Sadly Gup, we have more than our fair share of those types.

 

[murano]

Why would any airline pilot accept more responsibly without additional compensation?

Because we have a lot of koolaid drinkers who are just "happy to be here" and "would do this job for free".

We need to get SOMETHING out of the -800s. If they keep the payrate the same, we have to up the duty rigs and / or retirement. How about some pay for those damn plane swaps. They will go through the roof once the -800s come on the property. And you can kiss your growth goodbye. Gary can grow the airline by 25% for the next 5-10 years without adding a single pilot. Keep flying them weekends and holidays boys! But at least you'll have a shiny new BIG jet to fly.

 

[chase]

my $.02

Since the -800 announcement I've asked my FO's (probably 12+) prior to expressing my thoughts what they desired for approving of the -800 buy.

1. All but one FO agreed, -700 for -800 swap...one for one. No reduction in overall plan to bring AC on board.

2. No change to pay structure. More money immediately from -800s is not the objective; adding to the bottom line and increasing revenue in order to promote adding more airplanes and in turns new hires. They all acknowledge their biggest pay raise will come from getting to the left seat; adding -800s with no further pilot costs promotes that QOL improvement and quicker upgrade.

3. Rig changes; minor issue but worth exploring. If in doubt, refer to rule #2.

Interesting to hear those sentiments so strongly (unscientific as they may be) but clearly the junior I flew with trust the company to put the emphasis on growth if the revenue targets GK has put out there are achieved. No guarantees but to these FOs this is a better plan than merely waiting for retirements to begin or waiting for incidental fees to increase in order to meet revenue targets.

27% increase in revenue "potential" is a carrot worth pursuing in their view.

I would tend to agree with. BTW, I couldn't imagine flying with better FOs than the ones I fly with....totally professional with other employee groups, upbeat (19 out of 20ish) and positive toward passengers....also, very competent flyers who teach me something nearly every trip...thanks to you all for making it fun after nearly 11 yrs still.

 

[Dash Power]

Chase,

Aren't you just wonderful.

I must admit I drink some of the flavors of the koolaid. But you drink them all.

Pull your head out of your a$$ and see how your post displays how self indulgent you are (my FO's) and how you are supporting the continued backslide of this entire pilot profession by allowing the company to take advantage of our passion and vulnerability with being an airline pilot.

They will let us do this job for free if we allow them!

Growing the airline is not dependent on how much we give back or give in. It is purely based on the demand of our product. When we recover fully from this recession, this and most all airlines will grow.

This continued attitude is just killing this profession.

 

[Flyarcticcat]

I will have to disagree with you Chase. Out of the 30 FO's I have talked with not including my classmates. Not one has said they do not want anything in exchange for the 800. To the contary they are worried about being on the street because the company will not agree to a one for one swap. All wanted more pay and help with retirement. Also all mentioned being in the right seat now from 15-25 years. Retirement and 401k were big issues due to the increased upgrade with adding the 800's.

 

[knowlimits]

What a perfect time to merge this thread with the 'Why do people love to bash Southwest?' thread.

Ugh.

Since the -800 announcement I've asked my FO's (probably 12+) prior to expressing my thoughts what they desired for approving of the -800 buy.

1. All but one FO agreed, -700 for -800 swap...one for one. No reduction in overall plan to bring AC on board.

2. No change to pay structure. More money immediately from -800s is not the objective; adding to the bottom line and increasing revenue in order to promote adding more airplanes and in turns new hires. They all acknowledge their biggest pay raise will come from getting to the left seat; adding -800s with no further pilot costs promotes that QOL improvement and quicker upgrade.

3. Rig changes; minor issue but worth exploring. If in doubt, refer to rule #2.

Interesting to hear those sentiments so strongly (unscientific as they may be) but clearly the junior I flew with trust the company to put the emphasis on growth if the revenue targets GK has put out there are achieved. No guarantees but to these FOs this is a better plan than merely waiting for retirements to begin or waiting for incidental fees to increase in order to meet revenue targets.

27% increase in revenue "potential" is a carrot worth pursuing in their view.

I would tend to agree with. BTW, I couldn't imagine flying with better FOs than the ones I fly with....totally professional with other employee groups, upbeat (19 out of 20ish) and positive toward passengers....also, very competent flyers who teach me something nearly every trip...thanks to you all for making it fun after nearly 11 yrs still.

 

[satpak77]

An outsider observing from the sidelines, but why would the FO's "support" a one for one hand over of -700's for -800's ?

How would this (apparent) non-growth create more profit for the compnay and thus benefit the FO's ?

According to company public relations spokesman Mike Vandeven, the decision needs to be made by Dec-1

http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/southwest-airlines-evaluate-addition-737-800-our-fleet

Given the long Boeing lead time from order to delivery, Southwest would need to make a final decision by December 1 to begin accepting deliveries by early 2012.

 

[ableone]

Fo's would support a one for one swap because it does no damage.

They are not going to get it, however.

The company has indicated it's going to be a three to two ratio and it is going to back drive the FO's careers.

Were it feasible to negotiate a one for one swap that would probably be a smart strategy. The company will never agree to have their hands tied so tightly and they would be insane to do so.

If the SWAPA group does not wring at least some pay for the FO's (and future downgrades) they are both guilty of a failure to represent and stupid.

 

[GuppyWN]

Bingo.

Gup

 

[satpak77]

on another note, is SWA going to hire due to the pending new crew rest guidelines ?

 

[GuppyWN]

Hire? Why would we need to hire when you can fly MORE blocks hours per day? The majority of our flying is with duty days of 11 hours or less.

I see us needing FEWER pilots because of this.

Gup

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

I'd like to meet the Alaska pilots you're talking to, because the ones I know HATE the company. Haven't you noticed Alaska is the only airline to taxi slower than American?

Alaska Airlines - Great airline, profitable, happy employees, same pay for all 737s.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

They're picking up extra flying while guys are on the street? Thieving anuses. Although it's not like our senior guys would even think twice about doing it either...

The cappy and the FO on the SEA/OAK flight last week seemed happy. All they could talk about was the extra flying they were doing!

Gup

 

[RyansDad]

Fo's would support a one for one swap because it does no damage.

They are not going to get it, however.

The company has indicated it's going to be a three to two ratio and it is going to back drive the FO's careers.

Were it feasible to negotiate a one for one swap that would probably be a smart strategy. The company will never agree to have their hands tied so tightly and they would be insane to do so.

If the SWAPA group does not wring at least some pay for the FO's (and future downgrades) they are both guilty of a failure to represent and stupid.

I thought I read somewhere in the RP or the educational piece put out that we asked if it was going to be a one for one swap and GK said that was the intent but wasn't willing to be tied to that. I know just like everyone else that things can change at a moments notice and fully expect them not to be tied to any kind of growth formula with respect to the 800 but if that is indeed what he has said than I take him for his word.. I just haven't seen much BS from him to make me think his plan is to reduce the fleet while keeping or increasing capacity thus putting pilots on the street. I'm at the bottom of the pile here at SW so the 800 has the potential to have a very big impact on me. I love working here and don't consider myself to be a a big koolaid drinker but I do take GK for his word.