SWA and Age65... lets get this straight.

[Widow's Son]

I wouldn't be so sure that a new vote would be any different. Most of the guys that I have talked to who are hardover for age 60 change aren't particularly senior. They tend to be older yes, but a lot of them have come to SWA after leaving somewhere else where their dreams crashed, and they are getting a second or even third start.

These guys feel that they are finally somewhere that isn't going to fall out from under them and they realize that the more years of service they put in, the better off they will be. In a sense they want to make up for the lost years spent somewhere else. We have hired a ton of these types of guys since the last time a vote was taken and they are enthusiastic supporters of changing age 60 even though they are junior. The really senior first or second pagers don't tend to really care one way or the other. They will have had very full careers and are set financially. They will vote to change purely on moral grounds (righting a previous wrong), but they aren't that hardover about it and very few of them are planning on sticking around past age 60. Watch the stock make a nice spike and those types will be bailing out left and right regardless of age or age 60 rules.

 

[SWA GUY]

I wouldn't be so sure that a new vote would be any different. Most of the guys that I have talked to who are hardover for age 60 change aren't particularly senior. They tend to be older yes, but a lot of them have come to SWA after leaving somewhere else where their dreams crashed.

Like the Air Force?

 

[SWA GUY]

"Air Force", "Crashed"......it's a joke Kernal.

 

[Aplus9]

My guess is that a new vote on the age 60 issue would be right down the middle 50/50. Alot of new guys have come on board since 2003 (myself included). Personally/financially, I am not for raising the age to 65. Like everyone else, I would like to upgrade to Captain sooner rather than later. As far as as the choices I made before coming to Southwest, I have to live with them, I knew the ROE's about this career well in advance. And no, I don't
want it to change after I upgrade either. I'm no hypocrite.
:smash:

 

[TexaSWA]

My guess is that a new vote on the age 60 issue would be right down the middle 50/50. Alot of new guys have come on board since 2003 (myself included). Personally/financially, I am not for raising the age to 65. Like everyone else, I would like to upgrade to Captain sooner rather than later. As far as as the choices I made before coming to Southwest, I have to live with them, I knew the ROE's about this career well in advance. And no, I don't
want it to change after I upgrade either. I'm no hypocrite.
:smash:

Ive met more captains against the change than I have F.O.s for change. You can probably take that statistic to the bank.

Dane was right on.

 

[Falconjet]

Can any of you SW folks tell me what seniority out of those 5000+ would be if they were hired in May 2004?

Thanks.

FJ

 

[TexaSWA]

Can any of you SW folks tell me what seniority out of those 5000+ would be if they were hired in May 2004?

Thanks.

FJ

You'd have a little over 1000 under you.

 

[Andy]

I think everyone knows most guys are perfectly capable of flying commercial airliners until age 65. The rule was financially driven when it was created, and after 50+ years of medical advances and lifestyle improvements it now clearly does not pass the common sense test. But...and this is a big BUT...changing the rule will have very negative initial impact on junior pilots and future airline pilots,as well. Until the entire system operates under a higher retirement age for at least 30 years, there will be varying degrees of negative impact.

Dane, I disagree with you on the ability to fly to 65. Medical advances have not turned back the time on aging; they have merely prolonged life at a low quality of life.
I'm sure that there will be people who point out how there are less smokers today than 50 years ago. True. However, take a look at the obesity rate in the US. Over the last 40 years, the percentage of obese Americans has gone from the 13% range to 30% range; I could pull up that exact statistics, but that's close enough. I'd consider the obesity problem to more than offset the fact that we smoke less.
Also, keep in mind that the number of hours that we work has increased over the last 50 years; this is a negative lifestyle change.

Yes, we (Americans) live longer than we did 50 years ago. Hooked up to tubes and getting quadruple bypasses. There hasn't been an increase in the quality of life.

 

[elcid]

Personally I think these guys will cut several years off of their life by working from 60-65. It's a hard enough life style when you're a young'n. Pushing it hard for five more years when you're already a senior citizen has got to take a major toll. They'll make a few more bucks and check into the big ranch in the sky about 3-5 years after retirement. For them and for me, I do not want to see this happen.

 

[Widow's Son]

I disagree. I have been doing this job for 20 years and it is an incredibly easy job. Commuters add a lot of stress on themselves, but that is voluntary. Today I am on day four of four but I'm doing fine. I've got a couple of good magazines and a sudoku. It is a mental job, not a physical one. We are paid not for what we do, but what we are capable of doing. That is where experience counts.
Yes life is hectic when you are young and have a family. When you approach retirement, your life is different. For some guys working is quality of life. I know one guy who ten years ago was a burnout, but today his kids are all grown and his wife travels with him two or three trips a month and they have a great time seeing and doing things they always talked about doing. I know several other guys who live for the overnights and taking the crews out for a good time. It is all about attitude.
People who keep working actually live longer than those who don't.
Granted every person is different, but don't disparage those who enjoy this incredibly easy job. Those who don't like it or want to leave early are welcome to. Life changes. Flexibility is good. A lot of guys will tell you that they enjoyed the job much more in their 50's then they did in their 40's.

 

[Peanut gallery]

65?

Being somewhat familiar with the current process and legislative process, my question is very simple. Where is every body getting ages that it will be raised to. The current push is to abolish any age restriction and leave the high end up to the industry.

Just my .02

 

[Tejas-Jet]

BOTTOM LINE: I don't believe the majority of SWA pilots support changing age 60, but the current union execs will not allow another vote on the issue. Stay tuned next January after the election of a new union president. But don't hold your breath...representing the majority at SWAPA hasn't always been a priority.

You could force a vote....just like the other guy did on the contract negotiating extension.

Go out, on your own time, get 25% of the membership to sign your petition, then present it to the BOD. OF course, remember, while the other guy got 25% of the membership to sign his petition.....when it came to a vote, only 20% voted with him....go figure....

Tejas

 

[Flopgut]

I disagree. I have been doing this job for 20 years and it is an incredibly easy job. Commuters add a lot of stress on themselves, but that is voluntary. Today I am on day four of four but I'm doing fine. I've got a couple of good magazines and a sudoku. It is a mental job, not a physical one. We are paid not for what we do, but what we are capable of doing. That is where experience counts.
Yes life is hectic when you are young and have a family. When you approach retirement, your life is different. For some guys working is quality of life. I know one guy who ten years ago was a burnout, but today his kids are all grown and his wife travels with him two or three trips a month and they have a great time seeing and doing things they always talked about doing. I know several other guys who live for the overnights and taking the crews out for a good time. It is all about attitude.
People who keep working actually live longer than those who don't.
Granted every person is different, but don't disparage those who enjoy this incredibly easy job. Those who don't like it or want to leave early are welcome to. Life changes. Flexibility is good. A lot of guys will tell you that they enjoyed the job much more in their 50's then they did in their 40's.

Next week I do a 25.5 hr 4 day with two red eyes. That's pretty easy compared to some of the red eye IRO flights to South America I've done (11 hrs flying in 13 hrs duty, all night long). Or the 6 day sojourn the guys do on the 767, leaves IAH to HNL to Guam then Tokyo and turn it all around. Or how about the 13+ hr stuff to China? Not to mention Rio. Yeah, this job ain't physical at all!

Sorry to interrupt, I know you SWA guys are enjoying a little "I luv myself" time.

 

[Flopgut]

Being somewhat familiar with the current process and legislative process, my question is very simple. Where is every body getting ages that it will be raised to. The current push is to abolish any age restriction and leave the high end up to the industry.

Just my .02

Since your somewhat familiar tell me this: Are they not smart enough to have some kind of age limit? Think about how messed up this job is going to get without one! In order to envision what it is most likely to become, imagine that the rule change will allow age 60+ pilots to come back. Floodgates would open, and anyone that could pass a medical would go back to work. There would likely be furloughs for legacy pilots with less than 50% of the list junior to them. The average age of an airline pilot would be around, at least 50, maybe 55! Some fleets at legacies would be seniority stratefied into a scheduling nightmare as all 777 crews will be 60+ yrs old. Absent a manditory retirement age, this is what we are headed for. Eventually, airline flying will only be done by extremely old pilots and hiring will only occur when one of the flames out!

 

[Flopgut]

and leave the high end up to the industry.

Let me tell you how that's going to go: Everyone will still be hired as an FO. The difference will be that pilots will begin command evaluation at a point NOT determined in seniority order. The company [industry] will use a different methodology that factors age to insure adequately qualified captains. And to that end, not only will they select captains for upgrade, they will select them for retirement!

If those were the terms in place for your career, you could erase at least half that stuff in your profile.

 

[Falconjet]

You'd have a little over 1000 under you.

Thanks.

FJ

 

[StarrBuck]

found this on another fourm..

Response to SWApA request for Age 60 Blitz

Honorable Senator ________________________
Honorable Congressman__________________


I am a Southwest Airlines pilot and at the request of my union, the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association, (SWAPA) am writing to humbly request that you vote NO on any legislation put forth to change the FAA mandated safety rule regarding the maximum age of an airline pilot.

A very vocal minority in my union has managed to convince some of your brethren that this rule is unfair and about discrimination. Nothing could be further from the truth. All airline pilots are subject to the Age 60 rule and the vocal minorities you now witness complaining about the Age 60 rule are the same pilots that benefited from it for the last 30 plus years.

Age 60 is not about discrimination. It is about money. The pilots you will see on Capitol Hill crying discrimination represent an extreme minority of the overall airline pilot population. SWAPA, my union represents a paltry 4900 pilots of which less than half voted to change the Age 60 rule. Our association leaders intentionally withheld valuable information prior to this vote as they wished for an outcome that would allow them to claim they had a mandate from the membership to lobby congress to change the Age 60 rule.

ALPA (The Airline Pilots Association) and APA (The Allied Pilots Association) together represent over 50,000 pilots, the bulk of the pilot labor force in the Airline industry. Both of these unions understand the Age 60 rule, its necessity and are vehemently opposed to any change.

Please don’t allow yourself to be caught up in the hyperbole and rhetoric that is being spouted by the vocal and extreme minority that is attempting to change this longstanding and very safe FAA rule.

Thank you for your continued support.


Sincerely,

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Starrbuck,

This does not make for a very credible letter. Does anyone have any survey to support the vocal minority statement. Yes , vote is aroud three years old but if you wish to state it as fact, be preparted to back it up. With the exception of the "It is about money" part the entire statement is opinion, which is fine if presented that way. It would be much more credible if there was one factual statement of why mandatory retirement at age 60 is a good idea.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Response to SWApA request for Age 60 Blitz
SWAPA, my union represents a paltry 4900 pilots of which less than half voted to change the Age 60 rule.

Man....this letter sounds like whining. Couldn't the writer make it sound more professional?

In addition, his numbers are a bit inaccurate. What he doesn't mention is that around 1000 of the 4900 he mentions weren't at SWA when the vote was taken.

And, about 60% of the few who cared enough to vote, wanted to get the age changed. Thats a majority to me.

Maybe the writer would be better served if he found like minded pilots and they started their own Capitol Hill blitz every 2 or 3 months like the guys in favor of this change take the time to so.

Face to face visits carry more weight than a whiny letter like the example put forth.

Tejas

 

[SWA/FO]

Sorry to interrupt, I know you SWA guys are enjoying a little "I luv myself" time.

Its always "I luv myself" time. Everyday 24/7.