SWA and Age65... lets get this straight.

[FoxHunter]

You can negotiate anything you want. But if the age 65 rule gets changed then over 60 pilots that are forced to retire because of their contract will sue and win. This happend in the 80's with FE's, there were age discriminations lawsuits that gave rise to the 80 year flight engineer.

You are correct, but not one individual has been required to fly one day past age 60. You will now have a choice to retire at age 60, or continue to age 65, 64, 63, 62, 61.:beer:

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

I disagree. I have been doing this job for 20 years and it is an incredibly easy job.

Widow’s Son,

I know it is probably hard for you to see past your bubble, but not everyone in the industry flies all the easy stuff. Not everyone is flying day turns as seems to be your case.

Have you been to Europe lately? How about the North Pacific? How ‘bout a month of double all-nighters down to South America? When’s the last time you had not only your destination, but your alternate go down at the same time after flying for 10 hours and being up all night? You got to love those forecasters in the deep south. When’s the last time doing you did an ADF down to mins? How ‘bout an approach to a snowy, short runway with a tailwind?

It only takes a small miscue to ruin your whole day let alone your career.

Easy my ass!! I’m sorry we are not all God’s gift to aviation like you.

NO TO AGE 65!!

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Stan]

You mean to tell me little ol' SWAPA is kicking every other pilot unions a$$ in? What the hell, are you guys paying for then? Yall, argue pretty dame good on flightinfo.com. Why don't you talk to your union guys. Looks like my 1% is enough to change the World! Oh and change is coming.

No but you guys are the only organized pilot group trying to change the rule. Actually this wouldn't even be an issue right now if SWAPA wasn't pushing the issue. If the rule changes it will be because of SWAPA lobbying . The majority of other airline pilots don't want the rule to change and ALPA and the APA are lobbying against it. Also it sounds like maybe the majority of SWAPA doesn't want the rule changed now but your leadership does.

 

[Booster]

AA767AV8TOR your Today, 06:55 post seems to make a good case for the young (what age is that?)pilots to fly those trips outside Widow's Son bubble. The good news: the older pilots are in many cases more senior and can/do bid away from them (if they think it is beyond their capability). So the increase in retirement age should not be a problem for Widow outside his bubble as you describe it.

 

[FoxHunter]

No but you guys are the only organized pilot group trying to change the rule. Actually this wouldn't even be an issue right now if SWAPA wasn't pushing the issue. If the rule changes it will be because of SWAPA lobbying . The majority of other airline pilots don't want the rule to change and ALPA and the APA are lobbying against it. Also it sounds like maybe the majority of SWAPA doesn't want the rule changed now but your leadership does.

I think you will find that the UAL group has had the greatest impact for change in the last six months. Not leaving out those from CO, USAIR, NWA, AA, FDX, UPS, plus others.

 

[tzskipper]

Maybe the solution lays in tying the manditory retirement age of pilots, to the minimum age required by the Federal Goverment to access Social Security and Medicare....

Skipper

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

AA767AV8TOR your Today, 06:55 post seems to make a good case for the young (what age is that?)pilots to fly those trips outside Widow's Son bubble. The good news: the older pilots are in many cases more senior and can/do bid away from them (if they think it is beyond their capability). So the increase in retirement age should not be a problem for Widow outside his bubble as you describe it.

Booster,

Your logic defies me. Again, this is the SW pilots living in their bubble and not seeing how age 65 + will impact the rest of the industry.

International pays more (read – impacts their Final Average Earnings) at most of the legacies consequently; the very senior guys are flying the long European, Pacific, and South American trips. Make no mistake about it; those trips age the hell out of you. There are a few pilots that chase quality of life, but the majority chases the pay. Look at your own operations, how many pilots choose to fly high when they can just do the minimum guarantee and take the corresponding hit in pay.

This is another reason why a lot of the senior guys want to go to a longevity based pay scale. That way they can bid the easy trips and still receive their top pay while all the crap (read – harder trips) go to the junior pukes at the lower pay scales.

As to your statement about bidding away from the harder flying, very few pilots can adequately judge their own skills. We all have egos. It’s like the old professional athlete knowing when to hang up the cleats.

As was stated on another thread, the average SW pilot is retiring with almost $3 million. At a 10% ROI, that is almost $300,000 a year and that’s without turning one wheel and screwing the rest of us.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

I think you will find that the UAL group has had the greatest impact for change in the last six months. Not leaving out those from CO, USAIR, NWA, AA, FDX, UPS, plus others.

That's a big negative FOXHUNTER -- ALPA, as a majority, is still against any increase in retirement age.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Tejas-Jet]

No but you guys are the only organized pilot group trying to change the rule. Actually this wouldn't even be an issue right now if SWAPA wasn't pushing the issue. If the rule changes it will be because of SWAPA lobbying . The majority of other airline pilots don't want the rule to change and ALPA and the APA are lobbying against it. Also it sounds like maybe the majority of SWAPA doesn't want the rule changed now but your leadership does.

A few posts on FlightInfo.com doesn't make for a majority. And, you sday that ALPA and APA are lobbying against it, but their credibility gets shot everytime a Capitol Hill lobbying blitz takes place and ALPA and APA members are there lobbying for the age change.

Tejas

 

[Stan]

A few posts on FlightInfo.com doesn't make for a majority. And, you sday that ALPA and APA are lobbying against it, but their credibility gets shot everytime a Capitol Hill lobbying blitz takes place and ALPA and APA members are there lobbying for the age change.

Tejas

Feel free to negotiate with your company for whatever you can get in your contract. However when you lobby congress to change a rule that will impact every airline pilot in America it is just the same as JBLU pilots trying to change the 8 hour block rule.