SWA and Age65... lets get this straight.

[SWA/FO]

You get to say: "I work for the company that started this".

Yeah! you guys are just jealous cus our little union is kicking ALPA's a$$. Just like our little airline kicked everyones a$$ over the last 35 years, and we continue to do so.

I'll tell you one thing, this law didn't get changed cus folks like you cried on flightinfo.com.... You need to go fight for what you think it right. You're going to get nowhere on here...and fast.

All you need to do is convince a Senator that "it was his idea in the first place" and he will take it from there.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

It represents the majority of those that took the time to vote...a He!! of a long time ago!

Really Flop? Well enlighten us then....exactly when did the vote take place?

Tejas

 

[737tanker]

I am so ready for this legislation to pass so we can move on. I think it is going to be great when it does and 10 yrs from now no one will care. Who on this site remembers what it was like 40 yrs ago before the age 60 rule came into effect?

Or a little over 10 years ago when it was applied to the 135 scheduled carriers. Yes believe it or not until the early 90s you could fly for a commuter and be over 60 as they had no age limit, just like the 135 non-scheduled carriers do now.

 

[canyonblue]

...........demonstratively superior to you in service.....

Then you have nothing to fear from SWA.

You get to say: "I work for the company that started this".

And you get to say: "I work with the pilot group that started this". When was that again, 1983?

 

[Widow's Son]

>>demonstratively superior to you in service<<

Flopgut,

I don't know who you fly for, but I assume that it is one of the so called "legacy" carriers. That being the case SWA has ...

1. demonstratively superior aggregate safety record.
2. demonstratively superior aggregate on-time record.
3. demonstratively superior passenger complaint record.
4. demonstratively superior average fleet age.
5. demonstratively superior seat pitch in coach (in most cases)
6. demonstratively superior frequent flyer program.
7. demonstratively superior aggregate market frequency
8. demonstratively superior fares.
9. demonstratively superior record of FAA fines, violations, and deviations.

At SWA you'll never buy a ticket and end up on a commuter plane or a foreign carrier.

Would you please enlighten us on what you are basing your superior service claims upon?

 

[Flopgut]

Yeah! you guys are just jealous cus our little union is kicking ALPA's a$$. Just like our little airline kicked everyones a$$ over the last 35 years, and we continue to do so.

I'll tell you one thing, this law didn't get changed cus folks like you cried on flightinfo.com.... You need to go fight for what you think it right. You're going to get nowhere on here...and fast.

All you need to do is convince a Senator that "it was his idea in the first place" and he will take it from there.

I do a lot more than gripe on here.

I am disapointed with ALPA on this. Results of a comprehensive study are clear, yet hundreds of ALPA pilots show up on Washington recently and lobby en mass and ALPA doesn't try to shut em down? Not happy, they've heard from me.

There is an imbalance of favor in the airline world right now, it will correct itself. There was a time when you were pretty close to becoming an ALPA carrier.

 

[Flopgut]

Really Flop? Well enlighten us then....exactly when did the vote take place?

Tejas

If I'm reading correctly, it was over 3 years ago, prior to 20% of your pilots hire date.

Would you like to compare the methodology or degree of human intellect that formulated SWAPA position with what was available for ALPA to consider?

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Yes, but having both pilots Typed at WN makes up for any reduction in safety by pilots who are between 60 and 65.

Miles Otoole,

Still doesn’t change the fact that the current legislation allows for only one pilot over the age of 60 in the cockpit. How will that impact bidding, scheduling and reserve?

Is the rule safe or what? Even Congress doesn’t think it’s safe to have two guys over the age of sixty in the same cockpit.

Not only are they stealing our jobs and paychecks, now we got to baby sit them on top of it!

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Flopgut]

>>demonstratively superior to you in service<<

Flopgut,

I don't know who you fly for, but I assume that it is one of the so called "legacy" carriers. That being the case SWA has ...

1. demonstratively superior aggregate safety record.
2. demonstratively superior aggregate on-time record.
3. demonstratively superior passenger complaint record.
4. demonstratively superior average fleet age.
5. demonstratively superior seat pitch in coach (in most cases)
6. demonstratively superior frequent flyer program.
7. demonstratively superior aggregate market frequency
8. demonstratively superior fares.
9. demonstratively superior record of FAA fines, violations, and deviations.

At SWA you'll never buy a ticket and end up on a commuter plane or a foreign carrier.

Would you please enlighten us on what you are basing your superior service claims upon?

Guess I touched a nerve with the "demonstratively superior" comment. I'm speaking in the context of service levels that differentiate us, that's all, pretty easy to understand. We have First Class available. We have food (FC food is real good with ice cream for dessert), presidents clubs, in flight entertainment, and a frequent flyer program that can reward you with a FC seat or a vacation to Mexico.

I have to defend our FAs (no matter how bad they look compared to yours)Your FAs tear open cokes and pass out peanuts and tell a joke or two. Ours run hot meals to every seat through two galleys and do a real good job. That's not slamming SWA, that's just the differrence between two products.

Let's not discuss the safety/regualtory stuff.

 

[Judge]

I think Flopgut was turned down either from an interview or after an interview from SWA. I've only been on here for a couple years, but he continually bashes SWA and never lets on who he works for. Just a hunch...

 

[Widow's Son]

>>Guess I touched a nerve with the "demonstratively superior" comment.<<

No, a nerve gets touched when a comment stikes home because of its veracity. What you touched was a funny bone.

>>Let's not discuss the safety/regualtory stuff.<<

Even though it is a huge part of the actual "service" provided to the customer, I can understand why you wouldn't want to talk about that.

 

[Flopgut]

I am so ready for this legislation to pass so we can move on. I think it is going to be great when it does and 10 yrs from now no one will care. Who on this site remembers what it was like 40 yrs ago before the age 60 rule came into effect?

Don't worry be happy you will all get your shot at that extra 1 mil.

I'm so ready for SWAPA to grow up and start acting like a union. You've correctly identified that this about money. But to term it an "extra 1 mil" is where you goof. It costs everyone who wants to retire at 60 about a .30 cents on the dollar to get you that money. That's BS! You want an extra 1 mil.? then you tell SWA that's what you want through your CBA! SWA is making all the money right now that others once did, you get some of it. Get some extra going away money for retirement at 60 and leave the rule alone. How does that not make sense to you?

 

[Flopgut]

>>Guess I touched a nerve with the "demonstratively superior" comment.<<

No, a nerve gets touched when a comment stikes home because of its veracity. What you touched was a funny bone.

>>Let's not discuss the safety/regualtory stuff.<<

Even though it is a huge part of the actual "service" provided to the customer, I can understand why you wouldn't want to talk about that.

I don't want to discuss the safety/regulatory stuff as a favor to you. If we scale the scope/complexity of SWA to any other operation you won't fare too well.

Look, you've got a great product, but it in no way compares to a full service airline. And that's fine! As I have written before, in a previous career I was a member of Rapid Rewards and I like it very much. I earned a free ticket quicker than my coworkers. But I was disappointed when I saw my coworker, who participated in another program and who had waited longer, head off to Octoberfest in Germany. I didn't save enough flying SWA to buy that ticket. Keep it real on service, you SWA folks get carried away.

 

[Mach 80]

----------------------
Ours run hot meals to every seat through two galleys and do a real good job.
----------------------

I can't remember the last time I got a hot meal on a domestic flight on a legacy airline.

 

[slaquer5]

I do a lot more than gripe on here.

I am disapointed with ALPA on this. Results of a comprehensive study are clear, yet hundreds of ALPA pilots show up on Washington recently and lobby en mass and ALPA doesn't try to shut em down? Not happy, they've heard from me.

There is an imbalance of favor in the airline world right now, it will correct itself. There was a time when you were pretty close to becoming an ALPA carrier.

Brother you are wacked , tell me when we where close to being ALPA. ALPA sucks and I think just about everone knows that. We at SWA never even had a vote for ALPA. I am not a big fan of our SWAPA but we are cleaning house.

 

[Flopgut]

Brother you are wacked , tell me when we where close to being ALPA. ALPA sucks and I think just about everone knows that. We at SWA never even had a vote for ALPA. I am not a big fan of our SWAPA but we are cleaning house.

When ALPA was lobbying CAL, around the same time FDX joined. The ALPA team, which included Duane Woerth, said the next group they wanted on board was SWA. They indicated that there was a bit of dialog going on. You were close to getting the ALPA pitch. At that time, you might have gone for it.

 

[Flopgut]

I think Flopgut was turned down either from an interview or after an interview from SWA. I've only been on here for a couple years, but he continually bashes SWA and never lets on who he works for. Just a hunch...

I never applied at SWA. If I did, they would turn me down. I know I'm not SWA material.

I work for CAL. Foremost however, I'm a fan of this business. I don't like to do any company specific chest beating and I have a hard time tolerating it from others. That's why I rag on SWA, they are the most overt chest beaters on here.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

I'm so ready for SWAPA to grow up and start acting like a union. You've correctly identified that this about money. But to term it an "extra 1 mil" is where you goof. It costs everyone who wants to retire at 60 about a .30 cents on the dollar to get you that money. That's BS! You want an extra 1 mil.? then you tell SWA that's what you want through your CBA! SWA is making all the money right now that others once did, you get some of it. Get some extra going away money for retirement at 60 and leave the rule alone. How does that not make sense to you?

Flopgut,

That’s exactly what I have been talking about. Not one Southwest pilot has been able to articulate exactly why there are taking political action to change the rule. Why are they being this selfish and self centered with thousand of pilots still furloughed? Though individual pilots from the legacy carriers can go to Washington, the official positions of both APA and ALPA is NO to any increase in retirement age. SWAPA is the only major union pushing for the rule change and has been for a long time.

1) Is it a money issue?? I was told the average SW pilot is retiring with close to $3 mil.
2) Is it a flying issue?? If they want to fly so badly, why not just rent a 182 or fly overseas?
3) Is it a discrimination issue?? Explain to me why age discrimination at age 65 is any different than age 60?

We keep getting told how great everything is over at Southwest. Fine, I’m happy for them, but if it’s that great, then why do they feel the need to have to fly to age 65. If they want an extra million $$ then they should negotiate it in their own collective bargaining agreement.

Go ahead and keep telling me how awesome everything is over at Southwest, but something is terribly messed up when they have to go through political channels to fly into their retirement years. That alone tells me Southwest is not paying their pilots an adequate retirement plan. Talk about being in denial.

What is probably happening at Southwest, just as the 37 year UAL pilot mentioned in the article, pilots are pissing away their normal pay and then finding out they don’t have enough for retirement. That’s why Southwest needs some form and/or combination of A & B plans. I know their management has got them scared about different types of pension plans, so if they don’t like DB or DC plans, they should increase their 401K match. 7.3% is just not enough. It should be up around 10% – 15%. Furthermore, they just can’t keep counting on profit sharing especially with the bulk of their fuel hedges running out in less than 18 months.

Southwest is just starting their own contract negotiations – retirement should be at the top of their list.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

----------------------
Ours run hot meals to every seat through two galleys and do a real good job.
----------------------

I can't remember the last time I got a hot meal on a domestic flight on a legacy airline.

When's the last time you flew first class?

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Flopgut]

When the rule gets changed, each pilot group ( depending on the level of each group's collective unity) will be free to negotiate whatever the will is of each individual group is, when they get to the amendable date of their contract.

ALPA doesn't wave a majic wand....each group negotiates for themselves.

Tejas

Each group negotiates for themselves?! Why make this a negotiating item? I'd like to work on other things. Instead of changing this rule, and send every other pilot group reeling, you guys take care of yourselves. Take some money and buy retirees a top-hat bond for extra dough in retirement. Then buy some Cessnas and form a flying club. Although that would mean a second aircraft type...could screw everything up.