SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[Bob Dylan]

How about staying at your current CBA payrates and benefits + or - any future percentage increases/decreases that SWAPA gets. For this you stay at your same relative seniority. Would that be acceptable?

I doubt they would go for that but that presents a really good and fair argument.

How about you offer them this vs a straight staple. Or better yet, let the AirTran pilots vote on either of the two: staple or keeping same pay and benefits and keeping relative seniority.

I bet they'd happily vote for staple.

Problem is that they want it all and want SWA to give up everything while they get everything but give up nothing. Astounding! Very greedy.

 

[On Your Six]

I'm going to say this again because you clearly missed it. Try reading it slower this time.

The SWA contract has an ammendable date, it is NO GUARANTEE of future earnings for AirTran pilots or SWA pilots much beyond that date. However, you believe I should take a seniority hit so that you can get a seniority bump. Yeah, OK.

Are you so smug to think that your stellar contract will always be what it is today? Maybe, maybe not. History says it won't. Look around man. Your contract was nothing special back in 2000/2001 when SWA was losing pilots to UAL/DAL/UsAir/etc all of which had far superior contracts. Take the blinders off. Guarantee me better pay/benefits for the remainder of my career and we can talk about me taking a hit in seniority. Until then, I'd feel better taking my chances with an arbitrator who understands the cyclical nature of the airline
business.

Again, your current CBA guarantees AirTran pilots nothing past it's ammendable date. The arbitrators will know this.

Good Luck. Happy Easter.

Very smart. How many times in history have negotiators screwed up and later found to have made ties with the other side, or just totally missed something in contract negotiations? Remember, pilots aren't professional negotiators, even though we think we can be. Let the SLI go to arbitrators, along with your lawyers, and let them find a FAIR solution to the seniority list. People who fear an arbitrated solution have something they are hiding. In the meantime, happy Easter!


OYS

 

[-9Capt]

Problem is that they want it all and want SWA to give up everything while they get everything but give up nothing. Astounding! Very greedy. [\quote]

We haven't asked SWA to give up anything.

Look, I'm done with this. Good luck to both sides. We'll just have to wait and see what the arbitrator thinks is "fair and equitable". Hopefully it is something both sides can live with.

See ya.

 

[On Your Six]

I doubt they would go for that but that presents a really good and fair argument.

How about you offer them this vs a straight staple. Or better yet, let the AirTran pilots vote on either of the two: staple or keeping same pay and benefits and keeping relative seniority.

I bet they'd happily vote for staple.

Problem is that they want it all and want SWA to give up everything while they get everything but give up nothing. Astounding! Very greedy.

Please list what SWA pilots are giving up. Not one dime. Not one benefit. Upgrades? AT is bringing airplanes to this deal, not only pilots. Their 717s are just as big as SWA 735s. Stagnation? Well, maybe due to their overall youth, but that is natural in any merger. AT is also adding new slots at DCA, more at LGA, and a whole new hub at ATL that really wasn't open to SWA before. That is what the combined group gets, while the SWA pilots don't lose one dime. Dispute that Bob.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Problem is that they want it all and want SWA to give up everything while they get everything but give up nothing. Astounding! Very greedy. [\quote]

We haven't asked SWA to give up anything.

Look, I'm done with this. Good luck to both sides. We'll just have to wait and see what the arbitrator thinks is "fair and equitable". Hopefully it is something both sides can live with.

See ya.

Again, very smart. Spread the word. Don't think you need to give away anything to pilots who aren't losing anything in this deal. SWA management will be giving you paychecks, not SWAPA. You don't owe them anything. Arbitrators will see your part in the puzzle fairly, not SWAPA or even ALPA. Trust outside neutrals first. Eventually things will smooth out, but you will actually be in the correct spot after arbitration. And, everyone can blame the arbitrators if they disagree, and not you or the other guy. Good luck.


OYS

 

[400ADude]

Problem is that they want it all and want SWA to give up everything while they get everything but give up nothing. Astounding! Very greedy. [\quote]

We haven't asked SWA to give up anything.

Look, I'm done with this. Good luck to both sides. We'll just have to wait and see what the arbitrator thinks is "fair and equitable". Hopefully it is something both sides can live with.

See ya.

The problem with the Airtran deal is the watering down of the southwest seniority list with pilots from a B scale wage, crappy benefits and a sh!tty company to work for. It is like combining United with Skywest in terms of pay.

You made your own bed by working for a scumbag carrier led by maggot management. Better learn to deal with it or your head is going to get handed to you. Your not holding any cards.

 

[texman]

It's all in GK's hand.

 

[On Your Six]

The problem with the Airtran deal is the watering down of the southwest seniority list with pilots from a B scale wage, crappy benefits and a sh!tty company to work for. It is like combining United with Skywest in terms of pay.

You made your own bed by working for a scumbag carrier led by maggot management. Better learn to deal with it or your head is going to get handed to you. Your not holding any cards.

This is an example of what MAY be talked about between certain SWA crewmembers on any particular SWA flight. These people talk to their reps. They want certain things, and don't really care what is actually fair. Arbitrators will see your actual value, and will place you fairly in the list. Don't think there aren't attitudes like this within SWAPA's upper ranks, or maybe even their negotiators. Go for arbitration, and reread the above post again.


OYS

 

[GoodTimes]

OYS,

Easy there big guy. You're frothing.

 

[On Your Six]

It's all in GK's hand.

Do you mean Wall Street's? Yep. GK listens to them over SWAPA now.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

OYS,

Easy there big guy. You're frothing.

You're getting nervous. It's obvious. I am giving advice to people who need it. While they see dollar signs and better benefits, they are missing the point that they aren't being paid those big bucks by SWAPA, rather SWA management. They need to get a fair shot at their future seniority, via fair people called arbitrators. Thanks for continuing to give me a platform to express my advice to them. Fairness is needed, for everyone. Happy Easter!


OYS

 

[redflyer65]

It's all in GK's hand.

The truth? That runs counter to OYS sabre rattling. Gary is in complete control of this process, with or without arbitration. I think he's the right CEO to bring this together.

RF

 

[redflyer65]

I'm going to say this again because you clearly missed it. Try reading it slower this time.

The SWA contract has an ammendable date, it is NO GUARANTEE of future earnings for AirTran pilots or SWA pilots much beyond that date. However, you believe I should take a seniority hit so that you can get a seniority bump. Yeah, OK.

Are you so smug to think that your stellar contract will always be what it is today? Maybe, maybe not. History says it won't. Look around man. Your contract was nothing special back in 2000/2001 when SWA was losing pilots to UAL/DAL/UsAir/etc all of which had far superior contracts. Take the blinders off. Guarantee me better pay/benefits for the remainder of my career and we can talk about me taking a hit in seniority. Until then, I'd feel better taking my chances with an arbitrator who understands the cyclical nature of the airline business.

Again, your current CBA guarantees AirTran pilots nothing past it's ammendable date. The arbitrators will know this.

Good Luck. Happy Easter.

Good luck making that argument brother. Ain't gonna happen.

The gains on the Airtran side from the Southwest contract are overwhelming, and there is no way for you to argue around that fact.

I'm not smug at all. It could all end tomorrow, just enjoying it while it last. Southwest has done quite well for 40 years, and several pilots have done very well along with them. (profit sharing and stock options to name a few).

Cheers.

 

[GoodTimes]

OYS,

I'm less worried about this whole thing than you are. Take it easy guy.

 

[SWA/FO]

Again, your current CBA guarantees AirTran pilots nothing past it's ammendable date. The arbitrators will know this.

There is NO guarantee in anything. You might never be a SWAPA Pilot.

 

[-9Capt]

There is NO guarantee in anything. You might never be a SWAPA Pilot.

So when you have no meaningful response you turn to fear tactics. Cute. It ain't going to work, I'm not 12.

By the way, you're right, there are no guarantees in any of this, only highly likely probabilities based on contracts, past precedents, side letters and public comments made by SWA management.

I believe the arbitrators will return a reasonable decision.

Happy Easter.

 

[SWA/FO]

Just adding to your negative energy. :crying:

 

[kwick]

Southwest negotiators have already
Stated their intent to abide by Bond-
McKaskill legislation.

It will go to arbitration and will most
Likely result in a fair, relative seniority
SLI.

No one will lose their present seat or upgrade
Potential.

Why is this so hard to see?

 

[shootr]

Blind. Some of you are totally blind.

 

[SWA/FO]

It will go to arbitration and will most
Likely result in a fair, relative seniority
SLI.

What are you smoking? Is that what TrannyALPA tells you?

 

[jball2]

I'll say it again. I think it will be negotiated and when the dust settles, we will look at it and it will make sense. By the end of July is my prediction. The respective nc's are smarter than anyone on FI.

As a side note, I was having dinner with one of my best friends, a teacher. He is one of the most intelligent people I have ever met. He has a family and his wife lost her job last year. They have been struggling financially and all of the sudden the car started falling apart and the house needs a big repair. He holds his head high and keeps on trucking.

This friend has made me realize how petty this SLI argument is in the grand scheme of life. Admittedly, I have been worked up over this in the past but refuse to be in the future. My friend deserves much better but he ain't getting it. AAI guys need to appreciate the opportunity and we SWA need to appreciate what we have. It will get worked out and it certainly won't happen on here.

Here is to a speedy resolution that is palatable to the masses!

Happy Easter to all! He is Risen!

 

[Kharma Police]

I'll say it again. I think it will be negotiated and when the dust settles, we will look at it and it will make sense. By the end of July is my prediction. The respective nc's are smarter than anyone on FI.

As a side note, I was having dinner with one of my best friends, a teacher. He is one of the most intelligent people I have ever met. He has a family and his wife lost her job last year. They have been struggling financially and all of the sudden the car started falling apart and the house needs a big repair. He holds his head high and keeps on trucking.

This friend has made me realize how petty this SLI argument is in the grand scheme of life. Admittedly, I have been worked up over this in the past but refuse to be in the future. My friend deserves much better but he ain't getting it. AAI guys need to appreciate the opportunity and we SWA need to appreciate what we have. It will get worked out and it certainly won't happen on here.

Here is to a speedy resolution that is palatable to the masses!

Happy Easter to all! He is Risen!

So true, thank you!

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

It will go to arbitration and will most
Likely result in a fair, relative seniority
SLI.

Interesting how I read Tranny pilots calling SWA pilots unreasonable yet I read this.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Southwest negotiators have already
Stated their intent to abide by Bond-
McKaskill legislation.

It will go to arbitration and will most
Likely result in a fair, relative seniority
SLI.

No one will lose their present seat or upgrade
Potential.

Why is this so hard to see?

Relative seniority with seat protection, in this case, would be prohibited by Bond-McKaskill.

But you know that already.

 

[GuppyWN]

Am I the only one that sees talk of "no guarantee of maintaining SWAPA's contract" talk while forgetting that we have negotiated 10% pay RAISES WITH RETRO in the past 18 months? To further raise the bar.

Gup

 

[ASADFW7]

• -9Capt
• General Lee
• johnsonrod
• Kharma Police
• kwick
• MCDU
• On Your Six
• PCL 128
• Scope out RJ's
• Ty Webb

Check / Uncheck All


The ignore list just got two new additions tonight.

 

[Ty Webb]

The problem with the Airtran deal is the watering down of the southwest seniority list with pilots from a B scale wage, crappy benefits and a sh!tty company to work for. It is like combining United with Skywest in terms of pay.

You made your own bed by working for a scumbag carrier led by maggot management. Better learn to deal with it or your head is going to get handed to you. Your not holding any cards.

You are obviously the most unhappy pilot on FI. How you managed to swallow your bile long enough to get through the interview is beyond me . . . What a way to live. Enjoy your heart attack, it's definitely coming. :erm:

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Wabbit season!!!

 

[humveedriver]

You are obviously the most unhappy pilot on FI. How you managed to swallow your bile long enough to get through the interview is beyond me . . . What a way to live. Enjoy your heart attack, it's definitely coming. :erm:

For the record, -9Capt didn't say that. 400ADude did. The whole SLI debate is getting moot. The MC's will provide a SLI to vote on. If they can find a solution that a majority from both sides agree on great. If not it goes to arbitration and we get a result by 31 DEC. Then it's over. If the union's don't set an implentation date, the arbitrators do.

 

[GoodTimes]

So GK basically hands the keys over to the arbitrators and they tell him the date to implement their seniority list?