SWA/Airtran pilot integration thoughts, what will the new list look like?

[canyonblue]

Senior AT F/O's should not have to wait longer to upgrade than they would have without the merger.

They wouldn't have to if their company didn't get bought, but it did, and now you get the consequences of that action. Senior AT F/O's wont be the only ones waiting longer to upgrade, so will some current junior AT CA's.

 

[Slug]

You pay me SWA captain rates and I'll yank gear for the next 22 years. It would have been 17, but lets not go there.

 

[jball2]

I am guessing Kwick is a senior FO at AT. I am a senior FO at SWA. I don't pretend to have this figured out though. Let me ask you this Kwick. Was Airtran your first choice? I just had a very young, somewhat senior, captain there tell me how he came to Airtran to get his time and leave and said that was pretty much the idea most of his classmates had. When it came time to leave there was nowhere to go. I came to SWA because I wanted to stay at SWA. I am not bashing your pilot group as I have many friends there. It is just that most of them viewed their job as a stepping stone until the industry stopped and they had nowhere to go.

Again, AT pilots, this is not a dig on you. You are a great group of pilots who are going to LUV what is coming your way. I am just going by what my AT friends are saying about THEIR decision to go to Airtran.

 

[Kharma Police]

I am guessing Kwick is a senior FO at AT. I am a senior FO at SWA. I don't pretend to have this figured out though. Let me ask you this Kwick. Was Airtran your first choice? I just had a very young, somewhat senior, captain there tell me how he came to Airtran to get his time and leave and said that was pretty much the idea most of his classmates had. When it came time to leave there was nowhere to go. I came to SWA because I wanted to stay at SWA. I am not bashing your pilot group as I have many friends there. It is just that most of them viewed their job as a stepping stone until the industry stopped and they had nowhere to go.

Again, AT pilots, this is not a dig on you. You are a great group of pilots who are going to LUV what is coming your way. I am just going by what my AT friends are saying about THEIR decision to go to Airtran.

I can't answer for Kwick only for myself. I was hired at AirTran in the summer of 2004. No other airline at that time was hiring (including Southwest I believe). I live in Atlanta and have family here too and did not wish to move or commute which left me only two airlines to choose from. The other Atlanta based airline at the time was in Chapter 11 with pilots on furlough. When I was interviewed I was told that they were hiring people to be captains and to expect to upgrade in three years or less to which I did. I came to AirTran because I wanted to not because I ran out of options. AirTran gave me pretty much everything that was promised during my interview and contrary to how some of my fellow pilots understandably might feel, I enjoy coming to work and I enjoy being a captain.

So, if you are a senior FO then it would put you at around 10 years with Southwest, around the year 2000ish? Every single major airline was hiring during that time frame. Just curious, why did you choose Southwest and was it your first choice?

 

[luv2fly]

Most every pilot that has been at SWA for ten years is a Captain. By the way SWA hired over 400 pilots in 2004. Followed by over 400 each year for the next 4 years.

 

[ATLplt]

I am guessing Kwick is a senior FO at AT. I am a senior FO at SWA. I don't pretend to have this figured out though. Let me ask you this Kwick. Was Airtran your first choice? I just had a very young, somewhat senior, captain there tell me how he came to Airtran to get his time and leave and said that was pretty much the idea most of his classmates had. When it came time to leave there was nowhere to go. I came to SWA because I wanted to stay at SWA. I am not bashing your pilot group as I have many friends there. It is just that most of them viewed their job as a stepping stone until the industry stopped and they had nowhere to go.

Again, AT pilots, this is not a dig on you. You are a great group of pilots who are going to LUV what is coming your way. I am just going by what my AT friends are saying about THEIR decision to go to Airtran.

AirTran was my first choice. I was born here, grew up here, attended college here, and have always simply disliked Delta. I saw AirTran as a way to be based back at home, a means to a quick upgrade, and a comfortable salary able to provide for my needs until a better contract could be attained. I appreciated, most of all, the amount of sweat equity a lot of great pilots had to put into this place to become VERY successful in spite of the 1000lb gorilla across the ramp.

I don't know why you need to know if it was anyone's first choice or not. We all have different reasons for our decisions...geography, salary, seniority list movement, QOL, etc... In 2006, when I was hired, AirTran had an established fleet of nice 717's, 737's rolling in every month, and an order for a lot more. Things were looking good, considering 20+ percent growth every year (= lot's of folks on the list behind you). That was then, of course. Much has changed in the last four years. So are you talking in present tense or past, because when a lot of us were hired here things were very different.

 

[Kharma Police]

Most every pilot that has been at SWA for ten years is a Captain. By the way SWA hired over 400 pilots in 2004. Followed by over 400 each year for the next 4 years.

Thanks for the clarification, I guess I wasn't paying attention to your hiring in 2004.

 

[jball2]

Coming up on 9 years actually. I live in Atlanta as well and was torn between "BIG D" and SWA. They both had much to offer and were completely different. One thing I knew for sure, was every one of my friends that went to SWA was a REAL friend. The ones that went to Delta never talked to me again after they got their Double Breasted ego. When I got my SWA interview, my REAL friends called me to ask how they could help. Between that and my first trip to "Mecca" in Dallas, I knew where I wanted to hang my hat. There was no doubt whatsoever.

The reason I never considered Airtran was because, at the time, I made nearly as much at my regional as junior AT captains. The pay cut to start over was a much a bigger bite than I could handle financially.

As far as upgrades, I was told I would upgrade in 5 years at SWA so I think that argument about expected upgrade is moot. We are going to work this out and I think some of us may have to swallow bigger pills than others (those of us at SWA hired in my time frame are used to it). I still have no regrets at SWA but I think my 9 years should mean something. I don't think that is unreasonable.

Welcome to the family!

 

[ATLplt]

I think your 9 years at SWA means a hell of a lot. I think all of us mean something in the grand scheme of things. Nobody will be totally rewarded in the deal. It's certainly not what each individual pilot wants anyway. It's what the merger committee feels is fair, how they negotiate with the other side, and ultimately how the lawyers argue their cases to the arbitrator.

 

[Kharma Police]

Coming up on 9 years actually. I live in Atlanta as well and was torn between "BIG D" and SWA. They both had much to offer and were completely different. One thing I knew for sure, was every one of my friends that went to SWA was a REAL friend. The ones that went to Delta never talked to me again after they got their Double Breasted ego. When I got my SWA interview, my REAL friends called me to ask how they could help. Between that and my first trip to "Mecca" in Dallas, I knew where I wanted to hang my hat. There was no doubt whatsoever.

The reason I never considered Airtran was because, at the time, I made nearly as much at my regional as junior AT captains. The pay cut to start over was a much a bigger bite than I could handle financially.

As far as upgrades, I was told I would upgrade in 5 years at SWA so I think that argument about expected upgrade is moot. We are going to work this out and I think some of us may have to swallow bigger pills than others (those of us at SWA hired in my time frame are used to it). I still have no regrets at SWA but I think my 9 years should mean something. I don't think that is unreasonable.

Welcome to the family!

Thank you for the welcome, enjoy not commuting!

 

[jball2]

ATLplt- The reason I asked this is because Kwick has this attitude of entitlement that he believes he should leapfrog over people with more seniority than he has. I personally wrote letters of rec. for 3 of my friends at AT to come to SWA. People willing to go to the bottom of our list just to "Get Out." I just bothers me when that I have 9 years in and Kwick thinks a 5 year AT guy should be senior to me when I busted my tail to get to Southwest.

I'll take double my seniority for 2 million Alex.

Sorry if I sound crass, I know some of our guys have been the same way. I worked my way up the ladder at SWA and expect to be rewarded as such. I am not advocating a staple I just want something that rewards me, just a little for crying out loud. Kwick's solution is a swift kick in the, well, you know.

 

[jball2]

OK, I will concede this much. Driving to work will be awesome!

You are correct, they M/A committees and lawyers will have the say and we will all move on.

 

[IAHERJ]

Thank you for the welcome, enjoy not commuting!

Jball2 is one of the nicest guys you will meet at SWA. When a lot of us were trolling around Auburn years ago expecting to follow the same paths most from Auburn took to boring ole ASA, Jball2 went in a new direction and got picked up by ACA. 3 captain types later he jumped over to SWA. He gave me my multi-engine training in an aircraft most people probably shouldn't have been allowed to stand next to much less fly around in(with a dog)....There is a small part of me that wishes I stayed at AirTran(2003 hire) so I could hang out with all the ATL guys and the good guys that went to SWA from college.

 

[jball2]

IAH- thanks for the kind words. You are one of the good ones. I want to come see your boat sometime. The beer is on me brother! WDE!!!!!!!!

 

[luv2fly]

Thanks for the clarification, I guess I wasn't paying attention to your hiring in 2004.

No worries, I was just clarifying your remark about AirTran being the only airline hiring in 2004. How many folks did you guys hire in 2004? Not a hit just curious.