Survey: Now that we all have our W-2s....

[:-)]

Another guy who couldn't make it into military flight training speaks his mind.




*

Glad I could make your day.

Sir Calvin to you, and you don't know who I am, now do you?

 

[satpak77]

I would argue

that while "military vrs civilian" will never go away, one reason Airline X seems to "hire only military" is because the military is one big network of contacts and friends, buddies taking care of other buddies.

And nothing is wrong with this. Same as Class XX from Embry Riddle who stayed in contact with each other and Larry who is at UPS gave a rec to Bob who is applying, etc, etc.

Getting a job is about networking just as much as it is qualifications and education. With "networking" covered by being in the military, mandatory college degree block is automatically checked as is XXX millions in flight training given, experience in jet aircraft and heavy jet aircraft, international ops, combat ops, and lets not forget, protecting our country.

It should not be rocket science why military guys get called. It is what it is. Accept it, or be mad at it, your choice. I am NOT military but as a professional pilot I recognize the above facts and, hey, thats the facts.

As a civilian, to be more competitive in the market, all "we" can do is network network network, try to get as much experience in a variety of operations as possible, and do our very best to be competitive. Do 100% to prepare for the next job and be competitive, and what else can you do?

later

 

[rhinodriver]

Was on the fence

About $82K/US Navy/8th year/only seat in the jet/almost 3 years sea time (that means I wasn't home)

Great post. I was on the fence on the in/out decision until I read this. Guess which side of the yard I just landed in... where did I put all those email addresses of my buds at FEDEX/JB/SWA anyway.

 

[matchthehatch]

Dude, I feel for ya that you lost your job at UAL but WTF.....your mortgage is over $3000 a month? Sell the house dude! Buy a smaller one....it's ok.

Megadeth, He was selling mortgages. At least that's the way I read it.

 

[USMC319]

Starting my 19th year in Commercial Aviation, flying for my 3rd airline:

$82,347/F-9/Airbus FO/3rd year.

Waiting for the February DB at SWA.

 

[GVFlyer]

that while "military vrs civilian" will never go away, one reason Airline X seems to "hire only military" is because the military is one big network of contacts and friends, buddies taking care of other buddies.

And nothing is wrong with this. Same as Class XX from Embry Riddle who stayed in contact with each other and Larry who is at UPS gave a rec to Bob who is applying, etc, etc.

Getting a job is about networking just as much as it is qualifications and education. With "networking" covered by being in the military, mandatory college degree block is automatically checked as is XXX millions in flight training given, experience in jet aircraft and heavy jet aircraft, international ops, combat ops, and lets not forget, protecting our country.

It should not be rocket science why military guys get called. It is what it is. Accept it, or be mad at it, your choice. I am NOT military but as a professional pilot I recognize the above facts and, hey, thats the facts.

As a civilian, to be more competitive in the market, all "we" can do is network network network, try to get as much experience in a variety of operations as possible, and do our very best to be competitive. Do 100% to prepare for the next job and be competitive, and what else can you do?

later

Well reasoned and accurate post, SATPAK, coupled with solid advice.

GV

 

[G4G5]

I honestly feel that it does not matter civilian vs military. Arguments can be made for both sides. I have worked for chief pilots who would only hire military pilots because, "they got the best training". I have worked for chief pilots who would only hire civilians because, "they have got the best exprience, I am not hiring a guy to land on a boat, I need a guy who has experience flying in and out of airport XYZ"

I remember my interview at AA, the sim instructor actually told one of the interviewies," you better learn to play nice son, because the last time I checked AA does not have any single engine aircraft, nor do we plan on getting any".

Being military or civilian can work for you and against you. You just never know.

That is why, I feel it does not matter. The bottom line is they are hiring the person. You need to have the ability to sell yourself. You only get 45-60 minutes to make the guy on the other side of the table say, "we need this guy". As long as you maintain a positive attitude, stay honest (don't try to hide anything just explain it the way it happened and why you did it) and sell yourself. You will do just fine.

Most people on the other side of the table are looking to hire the best person not the best resume.

 

[SuperFLUF]

CAL, 7th year 737 reserve FO

$109,700 gross

flew under guarantee (76hrs) every month but Aug (85hrs)
638 hrs block for the year
70 nights away from home for the year
3 weeks vacation
just did my taxes and I got to keep 76%
$hit for retirement, so 13% of what's left gets invested for that
$hit for benefits, so 5.3% of what's left goes to that
and another 2% for union dues leaves a grand total of $66,000 to live on

 

[SWA/FO]

Hey Kernal,

Yeah, I personally, can see how flying a single engine fighter prepares one for a civilian flying career. No extra sim sessions beacuse of your awesome CRM and radio skills, right.

Like it or not you're a civilian aviator now (at least during the week). I know you miss your weekly "squadron cheer", your TDY, your 0-6 pay, your flat-top landings, bombing the enemy, driving the GV around and shopping at the PX. Hopefully, you'll get over it. Its over, welcome to the civilian world of flying... Where, believe it or not, civilians have worked just as hard to get here as you military folks have (with about 50% less pay and benefits along the way).

 

[acarpe3448]

May 2002 - October 2004 averaged around $30,000 or less on furlough

November - $9400 Delta 5th?F/O/88
December - $7500
January - around $7600

Working long days every day on reserve with no line in sight. 12 Days off a month.

 

[SkyGirl]

Hey Kernal,

... Its over, welcome to the civilian world of flying... Where, believe it or not, civilians have worked just as hard to get here as you military folks have (with about 50% less pay and benefits along the way).

And you were protecting our nation while you were doing it, right? My hat's off to you with your ever present threat of hostile fire over Des Moines, Iowa and the risk of imprisonment and interrogation under harsh conditions should you be apprehended during an overnight in Jackson, Mississippi.

You did what you had to do, but it was all about you. Don't compare yourself with our nation's finest who bravely serve our country. They are the one's who made what you did feasible.

Thanks to all of you women and men in uniform going in harm's way to protect our country and make our way of life possible. Good luck in your follow-on professions.

-SkyGirl-

 

[English]

The politically correct message for today has been brought to you by SkyGirl, sponsored by flightinfo.com.

 

[NJAFracPilot]

Whoa! Too many sour grapes here - I'm going back to the Fractionals board where all we do is friendly infighting and back stabbing.

 

[:-)]

Hey Kernal,

Yeah, I personally, can see how flying a single engine fighter prepares one for a civilian flying career. No extra sim sessions beacuse of your awesome CRM and radio skills, right.
.

I'm not against military trained pilots. But, you make a good point. It seems that single seat fighter guys are assumed to be the best pilots.

I have a question for those who think that the fighter guy is an equal newhire to a current Part121 pilot. If your spouse and kids were riding in the back of a Super80 and both pilots became incapacitated, and there were two pilots riding in the back would you rather have the Eagle RJ Captain (who likely has thousands of hours in the left seat of a TWA 80) take command, or the Naval Academy grad with five years experience in the Super Hornet?

Calvin

 

[:-)]

And you were protecting our nation while you were doing it, right? My hat's off to you with your ever present threat of hostile fire over Des Moines, Iowa and the risk of imprisonment and interrogation under harsh conditions should you be apprehended during an overnight in Jackson, Mississippi.

You did what you had to do, but it was all about you. Don't compare yourself with our nation's finest who bravely serve our country. They are the one's who made what you did feasible.

Thanks to all of you women and men in uniform going in harm's way to protect our country and make our way of life possible. Good luck in your follow-on professions.

-SkyGirl-

When the skies over Des Moines become threatened with hostile fire, and the military has openings for fighter pilots, I would hope that the military chooses a person who has prior experience flying fighters.

To me, that seems reasonable. Just as it sees reasonable that an airline would want to hire pilots with prior experience in the airline environment.

That statement means no disprespect to the men and women who protect our country. This discussion isn't about the respect due, nor about the value of, the pilots who protect us. It's about an entitement attitude that some of our ex-mil guys exhibit in regards to a post military pilot job.

Calvin

 

[Spooky 1]

Wow! Some of the comments here, especially from the likes of SWAFO are amazing. I suggest this person should look at the comments from both GVFlyer and G4G5 as I think they simply make the most sense in this somewhat bizzare review of career paths. I doubt that SAWFO's comments are typical of any SWA pilots so what gives with this person? Are they really SWA material and if so, how did they ever get by the review process over there?

 

[CaptBud330]

Duane Woerthless W2

I believe Duane Woerthless our beloved ALPO president mad $450,000 +$10,000 expenses, + Lincoln,+ insurance package. 0(Zero) block hours. Not bad for never turning a wheel.

 

[SeaSpray]

The politically correct message for today has been brought to you by SkyGirl, sponsored by flightinfo.com.

The voice of yet another person who couldn't qualify for military flight school and just couldn't get past it. Sorry, honey, if you're under the waiver age of 27 and a half, you can try again.

 

[English]

That is hilarious! Sounds like my old buddy Les Paul.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[English]

When the skies over Des Moines become threatened with hostile fire, and the military has openings for fighter pilots, I would hope that the military chooses a person who has prior experience flying fighters.

To me, that seems reasonable. Just as it sees reasonable that an airline would want to hire pilots with prior experience in the airline environment.

That statement means no disprespect to the men and women who protect our country. This discussion isn't about the respect due, nor about the value of, the pilots who protect us. It's about an entitement attitude that some of our ex-mil guys exhibit in regards to a post military pilot job.

Calvin

great post Calvin.