Students and freshly minted commercial pilots read here!!

[mcjohn]

Oh yeah, BTW FlyingNinja....don't file for bankruptcy! That stays on your record for a loooong time. Use one of those debt management services. Some are good and some are bad so research them before you use em. Remember that a lot of flying jobs won't hire you unless you have a decent credit history and bankruptcy will ruin that. Good luck.

 

[sharpeye]

I have read many posts over the years about different schools, and it amazes me that people fill these sites with so much negative information even when it is not asked, it's just volunteered I guess the posters would say. I agree there are schools out there that people should be weary of and stay away from. But if you don't know first hand about the school then you need to watch what you say. Here is what I do know first hand. I got all of my ratings and licenses at a Part141 school in Florida. I then became a CFI and taught at a school that began with 4 airplanes. Over the course of almost a year we had about 10 planes and many students keeping us, the instructors, very busy (I was the only instructor at the time the school was starting). The owner of the flight school baught himself a corporate jet (he made his money in something other then aviation). The insurance company would not insure me as a FO because of my experience level, they wanted turbine time. I elected to go to GIA and did their FO program. I flew almost 350 hrs in the 1900 and then after 9-11 I went back and flew as a FO on the corporate jet. I had a little over 1000 hrs with 350 turbine so the insurance company said ok (with formal airline training on the 1900). I had several jobs since then, lucky enough to stay on a corporate jet and build jet time as well as eventually PIC jet time. I now have just under 3000 hours and am currently an FO on the B747-400 (started for an airline in November of last year) and just got back from a 13.5 hr Pacific flight at 6 this morning. I'm not here to brag by any means and would be more than happy to help anyone in their aviation career if I can. My point is this, there are many reasons why people do the things they do. In my case I had an opportunity if I was able to get some turbine experience. I jumped at the opportunity and because I did so and with some more luck, I'll admit, I am where I'm at today. You can not judge someone just because they go to a particular school. Maybe you should understand why they did and their reasons before you judge them. GIA is an expensive school, but many people there are going through it for the same reason. They are gaining valuable experience and honestly the training I received there was better then any training I recieved at Simuflite or Flight Safety. They were a lot more stringent on their standards. I wish you all the best of luck and fly safe.

 

[mcjohn]

Thanks sharpeye. No beef here. One thing that's unique with your background is that you used Gulfstream to qualify for a job that you pretty much knew you had. And, that job was not with a regional airline. If someone's dying to get on with a regional why spend 40K at GAA? Your only going to make 20K a year to start. Better move would be to take 8k to Ari-Ben and get your 100 hrs of multi and get on with Colgan through their partenership.

 

[sharpeye]

Here's something else for those just starting out. A friend of mine did the CFI thing as well and was just hired with ASA I believe with around 1000hours. If it wasn't ASA I'll let you know but I'm pretty sure that's who it was with and I won't be able to talk to him for a few days. But here's the thing, why don't more people tell others how they ARE doing it, not how they AREN'T. There are many regionals hiring and hiring guys with only 1000hrs or so. So guys, let each other know who's doing the hiring and how or what they need to do, what is the particular hiring process for that airline.......

 

[mcjohn]

why don't more people tell others how they ARE doing it, not how they AREN'T. There are many regionals hiring and hiring guys with only 1000hrs or so. So guys, let each other know who's doing the hiring and how or what they need to do, what is the particular hiring process for that airline.......

Regionals are desperate for pilots right now because they keep getting new contracts by out bidding each other. Because they just out bid the other competitor they have new runs but not enough money to pay the pilots a reasonable wage so where do they go? They go to Gulfstream and similar to get pilots that they know will be happy working for pennies. This keeps the ticket price down so that the major airline gets the business from Orbitz, Priceline etc..All at the expense of the pilots and the F/A. If a pilot wants to go work for pennies then so be it. But for the love of god don't go to Gulfstream to prove it! You'd be making it way to easy for the regionals and really the entire industry to continue the downward spiral.
So in response to your comment sharpeye, this is why I tell people what not to do. But to redeem myself I offer this:
You want to work for a regional for pennies? It's easy. You don't need 1000TT and sure as hell don't need turbine experience. You only need about 500-600 with 100 multi. Hell, Colgan and others have been known to take people with 50 or less multi. So, if you don't want to CFI (which is fine) then you don't have to spend 40K to Pay For your Training at Gulfstream or similar. Just build your time in a C152 and buy some multi PISTON time for an extra 5 grand. 250 hr of a C152 splitting the cost with someone under the hood is approx. $7500 plus the $5000 for ~50 hrs multi = $12,500 on top of whatever it took someone to get a commercial multi.
My commercial multi cost from 0 time = $26,0000. 26k plust the 12.5k above would get you 550 TT with 50 multi for $38,500 and you could secure yourself a crappy regioanl job.
Gulfstream, you pay 40k on top of the $26,000 cost for multi commercial. Now you can secure that crappy regional job for $66,000 and prove that you're willing to bend over and take it quietly by flying for an airline for $7 dollars an hour.

 

[de727ups]

"If you want to guarantee that your money is put into a WISE investment then GAA or CAPT is not the place. Also, those places undermine the industry."

You know CAPT is not accepting new students and ERAU is going to shut it down.

 

[mcjohn]

"If you want to guarantee that your money is put into a WISE investment then GAA or CAPT is not the place. Also, those places undermine the industry."

You know CAPT is not accepting new students and ERAU is going to shut it down.

Doesn't surprise me one bit. All these schools/companies want to jump on the Gulfstream band wagon and ultimately fail. Why? Probably because they don't have an airline that's part of their company. If there was a regional out there that was called Embry Riddle International it might have worked. Bunch of stupid, greedy bastards thought they could do it. I guess their contract with that big jet cargo company to provide Flight engineers was all a lie. Stupid greedy folks like to lie!

 

[de727ups]

"it amazes me that people fill these sites with so much negative information even when it is not asked, it's just volunteered I guess the posters would say. I agree there are schools out there that people should be weary of and stay away from. But if you don't know first hand about the school then you need to watch what you say."

Look. I don't need to visit Gulfstream any further than their website to understand it's wrong for someone to PFJ. It's bad for the industry. Worked for you, but how does paying for a job help us better this mess of an industry we are in? There are timebuilding programs where you aren't paying to rent a seat as a required crewmember like Gulfstream does. That would have served your purpose without encouraging PFJ.

People who disagree with the Gulfstream scheme need to speak out. Not sit by and wait for their opinion to be asked for lest it be deemed negative.

 

[BizPilot]

A Letter to the Industry

Wow!! I didn't think this letter was still around. I read this about 8 years ago when I was starting out......and I think it still applies.

MUST READ!!


​

http://www.propilot.com/aletter.html

 

[mcjohn]

Yeah, I know that letter very well. It's great.

Folks, just remember, like de727ups said....when you PFT your are buying your way into the right seat of an airline operation which is a "REQUIRED CREW MEMBER POSITION." Some companies have somehow found a way to get people to PAY THEM for a position that they are required to hire someone for. That's why they pay you 7$/hour to sit there. It's a dirty rotten way for the CEO or president of the company to buy his wife that new Jag. by cutting corners. It's purley principle and has nothing to do with "how fast you'll get turbine time and secure that airline job and upgrade quickly." Unless, you're selfish.