Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[MalteseX]

If you were a NetJets employee, you would know where to look.

OK... It's in internal communications..... thanks

 

[dsptchrnja]

OK... It's in internal communications..... thanks

nice try

 

[ozpilot]

Are you suggesting the yearly increase in MM fees will cover what you are asking?

No COLA since 98? What do you call 10% raise each year if it does not cover COLA.

hmmm... a 5 year Citation X in 2005 earns EXACTLY the same as a 5 year Ultra Captain did in 1998 ..... errr..... maybe I'm just simple - but it would seem to me that since there is no new contract - the pay scales have not changed ...

 

[Grizz]

OK,

I'll type slowly and use small words so you can follow along. A longevity raise is not a COLA. A COLA is there to ensure that a person at the same year of service has the same buying power regardless of when he acheives that year of service. NetJets has paid for greater experience & productivity through it's longevity increases built into the existing CBA. It has not, however, paid one dime in COLA to pilots since 1998.

A Captain today in his 5th year of service has suffered a considerable decrease in his buying power compared to a 5th year Captain in 1998 when this contract was implemented. Prior to talking about any "raises" for the pilots, that loss of buying power has to be addressed. The latest "offer" from the company hasn't even come close.

 

[FRACfa]

Hello, we all work for instanely rich people, who spend more money on their cars then most of make a year. (I won't even start mentioning vac homes, yachts, parties, shoes, etc.)

Can't we all get along?

 

[dsptchrnja]

Well said Grizz - rule #1 of warfare - know your enemy ...

Are you serious? Enemy? Warfare?

Grizz and I (presumably of course) have been on the same team for years. Are you trying to cause division?

Who exactly do you think your enemy is? If you think its the guy who has nothing to do after work other than sit around on the computer during commercial breaks then your simply dilusional.

Don't you think RTS and BB having better things to do than get right on the message board after a hard long day to see how their faring in the world of public opinion?

Sometimes the pilots are their own worst enemy. They haven't won much support in most of these threads with some of the slander and even threats.

(not you personally)

 

[I-R-DXR]

Fact is I my be PI$$ off right now at the state things - and may be venting a bit here

BUT

Fact is we are STILL on the same team. These guys may flame the hell out of me but they may be just venting too.

Warfare my A$$

.

 

[Grizz]

I've got to correct a couple of numbers. I was looking on my spreadsheet at what numbers I have as my personal mins - that's at least COLA plus a 25% raise for the company types reading the board. It's late and I'm on pain meds. So sue me.

Straight COLA -

A 5th year Captain in 1998 earned $60,982 a year before overtime. I'm going to add in $5000 in annual overtime. That's about 5 hours per tour which is definitely on the low side for an estimate. If we did nothing but apply a COLA equal to the percentage increases in the monthly management fees charged to owners, a 5th year Captain would be making $83,750 now.

Assuming a 7&7 schedule and no overtime that meant his daily rate would be right at $460 a day. Working 219 days on the 6 & 4, he should earn $100,740.

The last offer on the table had no overtime and pilots would pay for their own medical. They'd lose 4 vacation days per year and the flexability to bid a rotating schedule. They'd have absolutely no scope protection whatsoever. Yeah, that'll go over well with this pilot group.

Unless and until NetJets management starts to put a priority on taking care of it's single largest customer service group, their business will continue to erode.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Additionally, there seems to be quite a bit of emotion from those who aren't directly involved.

How would you conclude we are not directly involved when our livlihood is at risk? Unlike pilots, the choice is made for me. Pretty easy for you to say who has no vested interest at stake.

 

[FRACfa]

One last time everyone..........


Owners To Do List
1. Have Jeeves wash the Bentley
2. Call Netjets and schedule flight to TNCM tomorrow.

 

[ozpilot]

No offense dsptchrNJA - if you are who you say you are - you of all people should know what the pilots (and all the other line employess) of this company go through to get the job done.

I'm just surprised that with your experience that you would buy the company line so easily. I've been through a strike before and believe me its no fun - in the end no one wins - but after 4 years of regotiations - and we still cannot agree on Scope, Salary or Schedule ...

Its is Union Busting 101 to try to pit employer groups against each other. I came here because I believed our management was above that ... oh well ... Guess I was wrong .... bring it on!

 

[dsptchrnja]

Unless and until NetJets management starts to put a priority on taking care of it's single largest customer service group, their business will continue to erode.

Grizz, I'm pulling for fairness. For you all and success for our company. Hope we can get this behind us soon and get back to doing what we do best.

Stay safe

 

[ozpilot]

Grizz, I'm pulling for fairness. For you all and success for our company. Hope we can get this behind us soon and get back to doing what we do best.

Stay safe

No argument here ....

 

[Grizz]

One last tidbit to clarify for folks - the $100K at year five that is coming across the company PR channel also includes adding in the "signing bonus" for the past 3 1/2 years to get there. Don't pay a raise for 3 1/2 years after a contract is due, then roll the "signing bonus" into into the next contract for the following 3 years. Pretty creative, I'll give them that. Too bad nobody's falling for it.

 

[dsptchrnja]

-----------------

 

[Grizz]

Money just isn't worth the price some are willing to pay to get it.

It's also not worth the lengths that some are willing to go to not pay it.

 

[MalteseX]

How would you conclude we are not directly involved when our livlihood is at risk? Unlike pilots, the choice is made for me. Pretty easy for you to say who has no vested interest at stake.

You make a valid point..... I honestly didn't consider that... I guess it will affect all you guys.....I guess I'd be emotional as well.

It just seems that non-NJA pilots responding on this board are attacking the NJA pilots' positions/views and not management's --

 

[Grizz]

But if you want to get serious about the bargaining discussion, what's up with the Chairman of the MEC balking at the companies presentation and leaving the room!?!?

Ask and ye shall receive. He left the table at the recommendation of the mediator when it became apparent that the items being discussed would require him to sign a non-disclosure agreement. Our elected body has made open and honest communication with the membership a central tenet of their team and the MEC chairman could not be hamstrung by such an agreement.

By the way, the negotiation committee remained at the table for the financial disclosure portion of the meeting. The MEC chairman not being there for that portion didn't stop negotiations regardless of the spin put out by Bridgeway.

 

[dsptchrnja]

You make a valid point..... I honestly didn't consider that... I guess it will affect all you guys.....I guess I'd be emotional as well.

It just seems that non-NJA pilots responding on this board are attacking the NJA pilots' positions/views and not management's --

I, for one, mean no attack. At this point in the game it feels more defensive than anything. The only reason I would not support a pilot's position is when they threaten the livlihood of others because their demands are not met. And the increasing number of cheerleaders for striking is irritating at best. Challenging their assertions bears no semblence of attack. Heck, I work in fairly close vicinity to some management and I've seen all kinds of things I can gripe about - I could start a whole seperate message board on that alone. I've stuck up for scheduling on this board but at work - trust me - I have my issues with them too. But my issues are objective concrete problems. The issues I've seen with scheduling in these threads are baseless empty allegations - mere suspicion (not to ignore a merited accusaiton here and there I'm sure). So I defend them here - but at work... grrrrr..

 

[dsptchrnja]

Ask and ye shall receive. He left the table at the recommendation of the mediator when it became apparent that the items being discussed would require him to sign a non-disclosure agreement. Our elected body has made open and honest communication with the membership a central tenet of their team and the MEC chairman could not be hamstrung by such an agreement.

By the way, the negotiation committee remained at the table for the financial disclosure portion of the meeting. The MEC chairman not being there for that portion didn't stop negotiations regardless of the spin put out by Bridgeway.

I thought non-disclusure agreements were a normal part of the process to protect the interests of both parties.

As you know the information put out by BWY made no mention of a financial disclosure being part of the meeting so I couldn't comment on that. Just that the union reps refused the offer by the company for the finances to be reviewed by a 3rd party.

 

[netjetwife]

Then NJwife er whatever tells me to watch from the sideline - Are you kidding me? She doesn't even work for NJ and she is driving around to the zoo in OMA for a rally - then posting 300+ here. I call that involved.



That's her choice - and great for her but don't think she is still uninvolved.
​

DXR, certainly I am involved in a situation that greatly affects my family. I have never denied it. I believe that anyone whose livelihood and /or family income is dependent upon NetJets SHOULD follow along closely and educate themselves on the issues. For the record, I began reading/posting here last year after the (failed) TA came out. Not quite the way you stated it.

My suggestion to you to watch from the sidelines, and I'm sorry if you misunderstood it, applied only to the Omaha discussion on this board. Some of you were insisting that the pilots share confidential information with you. I felt that that was akin to spectators expecting to be allowed into the locker room to hear the team's strategy instead of just being content to watch the plays unfold on the field. Yes, I went to Omaha, as did other wives, to cheer on the pilots and assist in a support role with their informational picket.

It does not surprise me to see other NJ employees trying to gather additional information on a situation that has the potential to affect them. I have tried to help with that effort by posting the website link the pilots have set up for y'all.
www.nj6s.com

 

[I-R-DXR]

DXR, certainly I am involved in a situation that greatly affects my family. I have never denied it. I believe that anyone whose livelihood and /or family income is dependent upon NetJets SHOULD follow along closely and educate themselves on the issues. For the record, I began reading/posting here last year after the (failed) TA came out. Not quite the way you stated it.

My suggestion to you to watch from the sidelines, and I'm sorry if you misunderstood it, applied only to the Omaha discussion on this board. Some of you were insisting that the pilots share confidential information with you. I felt that that was akin to spectators expecting to be allowed into the locker room to hear the team's strategy instead of just being content to watch the plays unfold on the field. Yes, I went to Omaha, as did other wives, to cheer on the pilots and assist in a support role with their informational picket.

It does not surprise me to see other NJ employees trying to gather additional information on a situation that has the potential to affect them. I have tried to help with that effort by posting the website link the pilots have set up for y'all.
www.nj6s.com

As I stated before the ASAP website is propoganda. A site made and paid by the union to serve the union goals. The company releases can aso be seen as propoganda. Thus the questions on this board. Frankly I didnt think the questions were that bad.

Why would the MEC not want to sign a NDA?

.

 

[Grizz]

As I stated before the ASAP website is propoganda. A site made and paid by the union to serve the union goals. The company releases can aso be seen as propoganda. Thus the questions on this board. Frankly I didnt think the questions were that bad.

Why would the MEC not want to sign a NDA?

.

You state that you just want unbiased truth but your questions continue to call into question nothing but the motives of the union and our elected leadership. I've yet to see you acknowledge that the company has been less than truthful in it's statements even when shown the errors in their message. You're obviously here for one reason and one reason only - to sew the seeds of management's position and hope that it grows into a bush. It certainly has enough fertilizer to get the job done.

The only person that didn't sign the statement was the MEC chairman because he is honor bound to keep an open line of communication to the pilots. The negotiating committee signed it and the negotiations continued. This is nothing but another red herring thrown out by management trying to cloud a very clear issue.

 

[x402]

You state that you just want unbiased truth but your questions continue to call into question nothing but the motives of the union and our elected leadership. I've yet to see you acknowledge that the company has been less than truthful in it's statements even when shown the errors in their message. You're obviously here for one reason and one reason only - to sew the seeds of management's position and hope that it grows into a bush. It certainly has enough fertilizer to get the job done.

The only person that didn't sign the statement was the MEC chairman because he is honor bound to keep an open line of communication to the pilots. The negotiating committee signed it and the negotiations continued. This is nothing but another red herring thrown out by management trying to cloud a very clear issue.

It appears the tactics from Mgt are working, that is scaring the non bargining work force. Gone is the 'no lay offs' promise, replaced by "The MEC won't negotiate." The numbers presented in Crew Ops are meant to make the Union look greedy. They are 50% of the picture. Boisture has been brought on to kill the Union, I have no doubt about that at this point. The question should be, " Will Mr Boisture's ego prevent Netjets from going forward as the company it can be?"

Your pilots have provided stellar service to the owners and cardholders throughout these protracted negotiations, it's time for the Company to honor the time and commitment of the pilots with a superior contract.

 

[dsptchrnja]

It appears the tactics from Mgt are working, that is scaring the non bargining work force. Gone is the 'no lay offs' promise, replaced by "The MEC won't negotiate." The numbers presented in Crew Ops are meant to make the Union look greedy. They are 50% of the picture. Boisture has been brought on to kill the Union, I have no doubt about that at this point. The question should be, " Will Mr Boisture's ego prevent Netjets from going forward as the company it can be?"

Your pilots have provided stellar service to the owners and cardholders throughout these protracted negotiations, it's time for the Company to honor the time and commitment of the pilots with a superior contract.

It continues to amaze me why you think anyone in the Casino would support a strike. That's the only thing that scares people. Isn't that what a strike is supposed to do? It's working - just not to your benefit. But maybe your pay off is when you get your vengence. Hope it will be worth it for you. You will be personally accountable for your actions to everyone employee that is harmed. You won't be able to stand behind your union on that day.

Bottom line - no one promised anyone a job if the union drags this company under. You have no facts to the contrary. We can obviously evaluate the situation for what it is without any help from the Union or the company.

 

[El Chupacabra]

105K is what they say.

Only if I sign up to work 37 more days per year. Give up overtime pay (say $6K) Pay for health insurance (don't know what this amounts to but could be 10 to 14K... I hope since the company has strong ties to the insurance industry it could be far less). Have also heard NO 401K.

Information is a little fuzzy but it could be:

Only 86 K (since I am not willing to work one more day than I do now for a raise)

- 12K? to pay for Health Insurance
- 6 K in overtime
-6K in 401K match.

That equals 62K about the exact same amount we get NOW.

That would be NO RAISE AT ALL.

Well I should not get excited until I see what the Health Ins cost and clarify what is happening with the 401K. But even if the company only charged us 5K for heath insurance... this offer is not a penny more than the Failed TA. Actually its less because there is no Retroactive pay for the going on 4 yrs since contract was up for renewal.


Mr Dispatcher.
If its true No 401K and No health insurance... I will be ready to sign up for this as soon as the company takes away these benefits from all the other employees as well. Don't want to be discriminated against you know.

Now I know none of us want that.

 

[Live4flyng]

Let's get serious dsptchr!

My serious comments were in the Looking for advice.... thread.

But if you want to get serious about the bargaining discussion, what's up with the Chairman of the MEC balking at the companies presentation and leaving the room!?!? What's up with him refusing (again) to have the companies finances reviewed by an independent third party? What's up with refusing significant increases in SIC pay and 6 figures for 5 yr captains?

It's not about a new contract anymore, is it? It's about vengence. Gonna make the company pay now, huh? You don't appear to want a better contract anymore. You actually WANT to strike?

Let's see, more money and I still get to fly my jet around when I'm not on my days off.... or... let's see.. no pay, no benefits, probationary record, jeapordize my family and work associates, and I get to carry a sign around telling people it's not fair.

Tough choice guys... you might need to think this one over.

You're not really a dispatcher, but we can pretend you are for the discussion.

The company has refused to show the negotiators the Netjets Inc. finances. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? They are waiting, and since you know so much about the negotiations, maybe you can pass that on to your team.

What's up with managements refusal to offer significant increases in pay? See, I can make generalizations just like you.

It's all about a contract and nothing else. I can spin your strike statement around and it actually makes more sense. Management doesn't want a contract for their pilots, do they? They want vengence against a group of pilots who have done nothing but help Netjets and all of it's subsidiaries survive. The pilots aren't the problem, management is. If you were a dispatcher you would understand that, but you're not really a dispatcher, are you? You sound like management and your contempt for pilots shows your true colors. Are you asking the same questions of your management, or have they brainwashed you into believing we are greedy lazy pilots? Like I said, I don't think you are a dispatcher, the ones I know at NJA are top notch and don't have contempt for their pilots.

One last thing about your second to the last paragraph. The proposal was for more days of work, not more pay. Your management needs to lose the "Gee I'm just happy to be flying a jet" mentallity. Pilots come to work to earn a living, not for fun! Management already sucked the fun right out of this job. If you continue to attack pilots without questioning management, your job may be in jeapordy.

 

[Sun Tzu]

dsptchrNJA hate to remind you that you came to NJA(with a pilots union). You should have been aware of the ramifications and the possibility of a strike someday. Our Union is bargaining in good faith and using the legal tools available to us, established by the RLA. I would hate to see anyone in the casino lose a job over a strike, but I ask again, what other option do we have? Should we just take what is offered and be thankfull we get to fly shiny little jets for America's elite. This is not about fairness anymore, hasnt been for at least a year. It's about certain ego and reputations being tarnished by giving into a bunch of pilots. RTS and Dollar Bill don't need the cash, it's about position in the business community. RTS wouldnt be able to show up at the track and brag to his buddies about how he pulled one over on those pilots again! I am trying to see both sides of the debate without emotion being involved.

I like working at Netjets and I would love to work here for the rest of my career. Do you think 2100 pilots are taking it this far for revenge. It's not a rogue leadership taken us down a dark path either. I would just love to update my resume, look for new job, hope for an interview, and then if offered move my family if needed. I don't think I'm willing to do this just for revenge.

Just like you ask the pilots to think about more than just ourselves, you need to see our side of the dispute. Do you really think BB is going to shoot straight and tell the real story! Dont be foolish! Seek and you shall be enlightened!

 

[x402]

It continues to amaze me why you think anyone in the Casino would support a strike. That's the only thing that scares people. Isn't that what a strike is supposed to do? It's working - just not to your benefit. But maybe your pay off is when you get your vengence. Hope it will be worth it for you. You will be personally accountable for your actions to everyone employee that is harmed. You won't be able to stand behind your union on that day.

Bottom line - no one promised anyone a job if the union drags this company under. You have no facts to the contrary. We can obviously evaluate the situation for what it is without any help from the Union or the company.

No one expects you support the strike, but we would like you to understand that any harm done will be because mgt egos have gotten in the way. Mgt stalled for three years and now want to tell you we are greedy bastards bent on destroying the company. REMEMBER we work here, too. BB is only the latest white knight brought in to SAVE Netjets. I'll gladly face anyone when this is finished, but you have already stated you could care less who's flying, you dispatch ac, not pilots.

 

[dsptchrnja]

You're not really a dispatcher, but we can pretend you are for the discussion.

The company has refused to show the negotiators the Netjets Inc. finances. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? They are waiting, and since you know so much about the negotiations, maybe you can pass that on to your team.
>>>
The pilots aren't the problem, management is. If you were a dispatcher you would understand that, but you're not really a dispatcher, are you? You sound like management and your contempt for pilots shows your true colors. Are you asking the same questions of your management, or have they brainwashed you into believing we are greedy lazy pilots? Like I said, I don't think you are a dispatcher, the ones I know at NJA are top notch and don't have contempt for their pilots.

Let me see if I understand your philosophy. Everyone who disagrees with you is either management material or a mole. Anyone who agrees with you is entitled to be a professional.

And you you accuse the company of being egotistical? Talk about true colors.