Strike/Netjets

[Grizz]

G4,

Since Grim Reaper doesn't work for NJA - why are you asking him questions about our representation?

 

[Grizz]

I know we at NJI would enthusiastically help keep things going

Spoken like a true scab.

 

[G4dude]

I agree that if I was at NJI I would be pretty happy. This is not an attack, BUT any rational person has to realize that some of the benefits NJI realizes are there for the very reason to keep you happy and non-union (7and7 comes to mind). How do you know how BB would treat you if there wasn't a union on this side?

I have seen zero indication that BB or RTS are a Steve Wynn or Herb K...and for the job you guys do at NJI you are underpaid and overworked as well when compared to to top 50% of Gulfstream jobs. IMO RTS isin't doing you any favors except for pissing on us to show you how much worse it could be.

I am generally in agreement, but here is a thought: Dump the union, see what Santulli does, and you are not happy, get a union back in again. You are in no worse shape than you are now. Those of us at NJI feel the union is the wrong answer to the right question. In other words, the union is the problem, not the solution. The leverage you have against Santulli is the threat to go union if he doesn't make you happy, which is precisely one of the reasons why we are treated rather well in Hilton Head.

 

[G4dude]

G4,

Since Grim Reaper doesn't work for NJA - why are you asking him questions about our representation?

My questions are general, more philosophical than specific about representation. I see so many unhappy NJA pilots, I wish it all would work out well for everyone.

 

[Diesel]

Hey G4dude next time your in the ES at TEB and find yourself in NJA's crewroom you will want to thank the union.

So let's see. Give up the union. No contract. Let the company do to us what they feel like. Change our schedule. Change our work rules. No thanks. I'll pass on that.

You might want to ask the FLOPS guys about some of the changes that managment are imposing on the pilots.

Don't be fooled. You don't have it so good because your non union. You have it so good because santulli likes to pit the two companies against each other.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Grim Reaper, I agree. By the way, what do you think of dumping the union, negotiating with Santulli, and see what happens? Works for us at NJI!

I have been around the block a few times. I have seen MEC members come and go. Each time a new MEC comes in there is great fan fare but not much action. Managements digs in a bit deeper with every new MEC. Yeah, I know there is there rare UNINTED deal but, as we have seen, it does not last long. The average United 73 captain is making about 110K. So, you Ultra guys want 150k. The math is bad and sad.

Negotiating with Santulli? Why think about something that ain't gonna happen. Just remember, "the OWNER THAT CAN AFFORD TO BE IN A FRACTIONAL CAN AFFORD NOT TO BE IN A FRACTIONAL." It is all about what the owner is willing to pay. Is the average owner willing to pay 4.5 pilots per acft 150K per Year? No! and what part of NO are you NJA guys having trouble with?

Just how many pilots in any corporate shop are making the dollars you guys expect? One out of the three pilots employed. Heck, the average private owner only has one or maybe two full time guys while relying on CONTRACT guys for the rest. CONTRACT GUYS -- JUST A DAILY RATE TWO OR THREE DAYS A MONTH WITH NO BENEFITS, ETC.

 

[Diesel]

Why is 150k unreasonable for an Ultra pilot? Because you say so? The airlines are losing money. We're making a ton. Throws that out the window.

If santulli can't afford to pay us what we want then just shut it down. If an owner can't afford to have a well paid professional crew up front then he shouldn't be in this buisness.

G200 will probably chime in here and I'd like him to. We work a lot harder day in and day out. In the ultra I did 5 legs a day 10-14hrs a day for a whole week. When's the last time a corporate pilot did that?

Remember oranges to oranges. We are not corporate pilots and we are not airline pilots.

We are fractional pilots. Period and we WILL set the industry leading pay.

 

[bluepost]

G4Dude...I can see how that view from the NJI side of the fence could make sense, but from our side it looks a bit different. Santulli will not give us a 50k a year raise if we vote out the union, no way, no how, even with work rule concessions. Now he may not give it to the union either, but at least there is a chance to fight back and try and help protect pilot wages from erosion with a union.


Like Grim says, these folks are going to fly on jets with or without Netjets around, and chances are they will pay more than NJ is willing to pay. So I know it sounds dramatic, but shut this place down and let them buy thier own aircraft and hire me to fly thier X for 110k a year, or pay us 125k for the extra 50 RONs and extra 200 hours we fly a year here.

In my view we have already landed at Omaha beach and your asking us to retreat and go back to diplomatic discussions with Hitler. It is easy to forget as a relative outsider how long and how hard we have fought to this point. This battle is not new and we have just gained a small foothold imo...no turning back now.

We are fighting this fight for us, AND ALL pilots out there. I hope every pilot in every industry benefits from this fight, because if we lose they will surely feel the downward pressure of our loss. ("NJ fought for 4 years for 80k a year? Why am I paying you 110k? You only flew 300 hours, they fly 500 hours....etc...")

 

[Rattler71]

Why is 150k unreasonable for an Ultra pilot? Because you say so? The airlines are losing money. We're making a ton. Throws that out the window.

$150,000 a year! ROTFLMFAO

 

[Diesel]

150k is funny? Your not still working for rattler because that's the funny part.

Oh and we're not a freight company either

 

[Rattler71]

$150,000 a year! ROTFLMFAO

I want whatever drugs you guys are taking that makes you think you are getting $150,000 a year. Please, Please share!

And btw, we fly hundreds of passenger charters a year. Since you are so uninformed.

Rattler

 

[Diesel]

Why is that so absurd? Because your not making it or because you never asked for it. You have no idea what we do but you feel the need to interject your opinion?

 

[J3 Guy]

Heck...om a type rated J3 pilot...I should make 80K a year if a Ultra driver can make 150K, and thats without an autopilot or an eletrical system.

Cub guy

 

[da90drivr]

Well, with the bar resting on the floor anything you get would be industry leading.
As to working harder you knew what you signed up for when you signed the training contract. Did you think the company was going to let you sit in Cancun for your 7 day tour.

Why is 150k unreasonable for an Ultra pilot? Because you say so? The airlines are losing money. We're making a ton. Throws that out the window.

If santulli can't afford to pay us what we want then just shut it down. If an owner can't afford to have a well paid professional crew up front then he shouldn't be in this buisness.

G200 will probably chime in here and I'd like him to. We work a lot harder day in and day out. In the ultra I did 5 legs a day 10-14hrs a day for a whole week. When's the last time a corporate pilot did that?

Remember oranges to oranges. We are not corporate pilots and we are not airline pilots.

We are fractional pilots. Period and we WILL set the industry leading pay.

 

[Rattler71]

Why is that so absurd? Because your not making it or because you never asked for it. You have no idea what we do but you feel the need to interject your opinion?

Well, I do have some idea of what you do. I have been flying in this industry for 27 years. And this is a public forum and the good ol USA, so yes, I am entitled to an opinion.

I hope you do get $150,000 a year. But it will never happen. I wouldn't go out and buy that new Corvette yet if I were you.

I think you should quit taking those uppers and downers you so proudly advertise.