Strike/Netjets

[Grizz]

Kerosene,

It's unfortunate that you engage in a post without having any comprehension of the reality of the business that we're in. I don't care if NetJets had 2000 willing pilot applicants ready to step up on day 1 of our strike. The transition to a replacement work force always takes time. During that time, the owners would be inconvenienced beyond any ability of NetJets to recover from. That one fact is unacceptable to NetJet's ultimate owner. NetJets may push this right to the brink but they will offer us a contract that is acceptable before we ever take one step on a picket line.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Are there 400 Citation X rated pilots ready to cross the line for $27K?

Grounding that one fleet would be enough. What are the owners of $1.3 Billion worth of Citation X's going to say when they can't fly on the Jets they OWN?

Its much better for everybody if they just pay up. Believe me.


Even PseudoName knows that we can't be replaced with a Scab Air Force. But he mistakenly thinks that a Vendor Fleet could do it.


I wonder how many deliveries of parts etc. will teamster truck drivers bring across a Teamster Picket line. I know that at least some of the Signature's line personnel are Teamsters. Who gonna fuel these jets? I gotta think the Vendor Fleet doing selloffs are not going to get fueled in Boston.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Kerosene,

It's unfortunate that you engage in a post without having any comprehension of the reality of the business that we're in. I don't care if NetJets had 2000 willing pilot applicants ready to step up on day 1 of our strike. The transition to a replacement work force always takes time. During that time, the owners would be inconvenienced beyond any ability of NetJets to recover from. That one fact is unacceptable to NetJet's ultimate owner. NetJets may push this right to the brink but they will offer us a contract that is acceptable before we ever take one step on a picket line.

You may be right, However my corporate job has now transitioned to a 135 operator, We already do netjet contract stuff. Somebody would have to check the numbers, but there is probably already enough supplemental lift in place to make any strike difficult to succeed. Your schedules would suffer for sure, but probably not as much as you would hope. NJ owners are like any of the flying public anymore, as long as NJ can get them where they are going, they will still be customers. Many will blame the pilots for the problems and side with the company on an issue like this. Just like customers do on the 121 side.

The average 135 guy does not have the luxury of refusing the work based on union issues. He has no protections from reprocussions from his company.

Like I said, I know how you guys feel, my 737 job was outsourced to RJ's, something that nobody thought could happen a few years back. And my nice Corporate job just went to 24/7 on call.......so of course I am now looking for a new position ASAP. I can tell you that there is no shortage of high time typed corporate drivers out there. I would not take a scab position, but I cannot say the same for a lot of the unemployed pilots out there.

 

[Live4flyng]

You think NetJet pilots will be replaced by scabs??? Nope, all your flights will be covered by contract vendors who are already doing the majority of your work.

Go ahead, strike, your passengers like having an airplane that is not beat up and a crew that enjoys who they work for.

You are misinformed Mr. Vendor. How do figure you are doing the majority of our work? When Netjets gets tired of your services, they will pull the plug so fast you will be applying for a job with them. Don't believe me, check out what they did to Swift. There are former Swift pilots working here as a result of that. Contrary to what you think, our passengers hate when their trips are sold off. In fact, many of them threaten to get out of the program if the company sells off their flight one more time. Do you still enjoy working for Netjets? Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I wonder how many deliveries of parts etc. will teamster truck drivers bring across a Teamster Picket line. I know that at least some of the Signature's line personnel are Teamsters. Who gonna fuel these jets? I gotta think the Vendor Fleet doing selloffs are not going to get fueled in Boston.

Unions have been bending over on a regular basis for several years now. The old days are gone....believe me, I have seen the unions at my old airline accept stuff that would have been unthinkable just a few years ago.

I am not against you guys by any means. I would love to see people refusing to fuel NJ flights in such a case, I just do not see it happening in todays market.

You are correct that it would be better for them to settle, and I think they probably will. Be prepared if they do not though, They know what the pilot market is right now. And the odds are not on our side. This is probably the weakest position the professional pilot has ever been in. There are guys out there fighting over $15,000 a year RJ jobs.

Have a back up plan ready, some srike money in your savings account just in case.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Vendor Fleet

So a 380 Jet Fleet will sit parked on ramps while they sell off all the trips? How long will this go on?

Also you are wrong if you think the pax want to fly on Chartered lift. They do not. They do complain when this happens and sometimes refuse selloffs.

But 100% selloffs with Billions of $$$ worth of jets sitting on ramps ... that won't paint a very pretty bottom line for the company.

They are better off if they just pay. They know it and we know it.

 

[dime line]

There are guys out there fighting over $15,000 a year RJ jobs.


This is the problem with OUR industry.
Go get em

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

So a 380 Jet Fleet will sit parked on ramps while they sell off all the trips? How long will this go on?

Also you are wrong if you think the pax want to fly on Chartered lift. They do not. They do complain when this happens and sometimes refuse selloffs.

But 100% selloffs with Billions of $$$ worth of jets sitting on ramps ... that won't paint a very pretty bottom line for the company.

They are better off if they just pay. They know it and we know it.

An old airline guy from the hardcore union days once told me.

"The company can always last longer than the average pilot can in a strike situation. They know a strike is possibly coming and they for sure have been stockpiling money for such an event."

His last bit of advice......."As long as you are in the seat, you control the altitude and throttle, and that can be more powerful than any strike....it just takes a bit longer, but you still have the paycheck and customers on your side."

Even a Citation sucks gobs of dino juice at low altitudes.

 

[sdmund]

Just an old Cub Pilot, not trying to start a bash, (but you sure came out swinging and poking didnt you?) but evidently some netjet pilots have large egos.......(sounds like your the one with the complex, i.e. little D$CK)...Ill stick to flying my Cub, (good thinking chuck yeager) im teaching a netjets pilot wife to fly...(oh hear we go with the little D$CK thing again) ..she enjoys all that time her hubby is away from home. (How about you stay at home until you have a clue what you are talking about)

 

[El Chupacabra]

That may be true at an airline.... Airlines can cancel flights.

We have already had days where we exhausted all of our assets plus all the Charter lift available.

Also though some folks don't seem to believe it... our Owners do NOT want to fly on chartered selloffs. I see the notes. DO NOT SELLOFF on the briefing... that comes when a person gets more than his share of selloffs.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

That may be true at an airline.... Airlines can cancel flights.

We have already had days where we exhausted all of our assets plus all the Charter lift available.

Also though some folks don't seem to believe it... our Owners do NOT want to fly on chartered selloffs. I see the notes. DO NOT SELLOFF on the briefing... that comes when a person gets more than his share of selloffs.

All I am saying is for you guys to watch your numbers. You can be sure that the company has it figured down to the penny and minute as to how long they can go in a strike situation. They probably have a pretty good estimate on how long your pilot group can go without pay also.

Additionally, most, if not all of your owners are businessmen and women too. The majority of them will not be on your side if you shut it down. Chances are they deal with the same labor issues that NJ does and many would endure 121 and 135 transportation long enough to break the pilots bank accounts.

You must be careful to not push for something that the owners feel is unreasonable. If their rates and ownership fee's increase because of a pilot labor action, there will be zero sympathy for your group. You can be sure that the point will come when NJ will start the propaganda machine in motion toward the owners. The pilot union will need to find a way to communicate their issues to the owners as well.....and a bunch of P/Oed pilots complaining en-route is not the way. That will simply push the owners more toward managments position.

You are not an airline as you said, in several ways you are in a much worse position than the average airline union because your passengers have a much bigger stake in the company than Joe 121 Pax does. If you start hitting their wallets hard, they will have no mercy on you. However you do have some things going for you that the airlines do not as well (owner loyalty to your pilot group) But that can quickly turn bad if they take a financial hit.

Like I said, I hope it works out for you folks. The passengers have spoken on the 121 side of things, and the airline pilots are getting creamed. They would rather have $49 fares than experienced content pilots.

 

[El Chupacabra]

I would have to say I disagree. Never has there been a pilot group with MORE leverage than this one. Simply need to be released.

Once again when that happens the company will fold their cards... and they will PAY. They cannot cancel flights and they cannot run a business by chartering all their lift.

 

[Live4flyng]

You are correct that it would be better for them to settle, and I think they probably will. Be prepared if they do not though, They know what the pilot market is right now. And the odds are not on our side. This is probably the weakest position the professional pilot has ever been in. There are guys out there fighting over $15,000 a year RJ jobs.

There may be guys fighting over $15K/year RJ jobs, but there aren't pilots fighting over $27K/year bizjet jobs. There is a clear reason for this. Most $15K/year fighting RJ pilots are building time and do not have an ATP much less the minimums required for this job. Two completely different industries from a pilot and hiring standpoint. In case you are unaware, Netjets is finding it very difficult to get new hires in the door. Half of them don't even show up for day 1 of training. In contrast to the RJ job, we are probably in the strongest position ever!

 

[da90drivr]

These " industries" are more similar than you would like to admit. How many people do you think are coming to NJA now because they have other options? I would guess most of your new hires are furloughed major and regional pilots with no place else to go. And the rest are those with an ATP and a pulse willing to work for substandard pay.

As it was mentioned in another post, the owners will probably be on the side of management (that is who they are).
Go on strike, maybe some of those high paying corporate pilot jobs that went to the "underpaid Frac pilots willing to work for peanuts (or left over catering) will return to the private sector.

There may be guys fighting over $15K/year RJ jobs, but there aren't pilots fighting over $27K/year bizjet jobs. There is a clear reason for this. Most $15K/year fighting RJ pilots are building time and do not have an ATP much less the minimums required for this job. Two completely different industries from a pilot and hiring standpoint. In case you are unaware, Netjets is finding it very difficult to get new hires in the door. Half of them don't even show up for day 1 of training. In contrast to the RJ job, we are probably in the strongest position ever!

 

[SwissAviator]

What kind of payscale will you guys be looking for in a new contract. I know that 100K at year five is a big point, but what kind of F/O payscale is the union asking for.

Thanks

 

[Grizz]

The exact amounts the negotiating committee is looking for is a closely guarded secret, known to that commitee and the MEC. But if I find out, I'll be glad to post it on a public forum... r i g h t.

 

[J3 Guy]

Its nice to see more flight departments starting up in my home town, the owners are smart enough to stay away from the fracs. They like being in control.
Their are people that have an entire business of helping frac owners get out of their vary detailed (hidden fees) contract.
But what do I know im just a Cub pilot, I think I will apply to Jetblue I saw ther add today in trade a plane.
Its much more enjoyable to fly with pilots that enjoy their job.

Thanks
J3 guy

 

[ultrarunner]

maybe someone can post some good info:

#1. Are negotiations currently taking place?

#2. When do you expect it to go to mediation?

#3. Base on above, when would the pilot group expect to be released into the 30 day cooling off period?

I'm thinking that if the pilots do walk, June/July/Aug would not be a bad time to be out of work.

 

[100LL... Again!]

You guys fell for a troll.

 

[Boilermaker]

100LL is right....

I hate to see someone get under your skin. Since the idea has been brought up, though, I was wondering what NJ pilots think of vendors. Being one, we enjoy the extra business we can get by helping out but I would hate to think of us taking away any leverage you guys have in getting your contract taken care of. I have met quite a few of your pilots and have to say I've enjoyed talking to everyone. I'm pulling for you to get your contract done, because it is symptomatic of aviation in general and it's time for pilots to be paid what they're worth. Anyway, good luck and I hope you don't hate us vendors!