STOP PAYING YOUR Fltop UNION DUES!

[B19 Flyer]

It is the union's job to consider the interests of all of it's members. I do not believe our leadership will effectively leave our fallen heroes lying wounded on the field of battle. I wonder who among us would set aside our collective responsibility to those pilots who have lost their jobs? I wonder who could live with the soul crushing consequences if we did? Yes accepting management's proposed economic package would provide a pay raise, but could any of us hold our heads high at work knowing that every other pilot out there knew you were "one of those cowardly Flops pilots". We'd be no better than scabs in the eyes of our peers.

No doubt those devoid of any sense of honor will be willing to make such a Faustian bargain with management. And yes it will be all of the usual suspects. The reticent and weak-sisterly bunch who have plagued us with their cowardice from the beginning. That being said, the vast majority of pilots are supportive of our union's position. They see this economic package for what it is, simply a first offer, which needs to be countered.


We as a pilot group should be proud of our collective response to this cheep shot by management. The fact that majority have not flinched in the face of this ruse and have communicated their intention to see this through, rather than accept blood money in exchange for the wellbeing of our brethren and their families, speaks volumes about the character of this group.

That management would now resort to sending out first time posters on this message board - as though they would be afforded a shred of credibility here - and dispatched known pro-management pilots like Eppley and Marker to send out hand-wringing e-mails designed to persuade pilots to cave in, speaks volumes about their level of desperation.

If we stick together now we will win the day. And when we do we will be afforded the respect we will have earned for standing up for our brothers and staring down our wicked and underhanded management. If we flinch as some here are advocating, our jobs will not be worth having and the name of "Flight Options Pilot", will be synonymous with Sniveling Coward.

There isn't a union in the world that has given up pay and/benefits to protect the bottom third of a seniority list or fired pilots.

To the union, they are simply the cost of doing business. Always have been, always will be.

Dig your feet in, scream, yell and say whatever you want, the union has failed you at Flight Options to this point. Those guys are toast, and the decision to place a union on the property is in large part responsible for their job losses.

Three years of turmoil, a stagnant airline with no growth and now a failing economic environment, and it's clear, your union didn't get it done.

These guys are gonna "show" those managers, just like the Eastern guys did.

I can only imagine what the boards are going to write about me when it goes down as I said it would.

Not a single person on these boards will ever admit "they got what they asked for!"

 

[cougar12]

You are confused!

I read on the IBT website that Teamsters National has instructed 1108 to not accept any agreements or to continue negotiations until the 70 pilots are retuned to employment status. National stated that we have to make a stand for the sake of all Unions and if that means they close the doors and we loose our jobs then so be it. It seems that National has planned an approach for their interests and not the interests of 1108. This seems to be their MO and this is why Net Jets is in the process of voting out the IBT and forming their own union in house.

I have spoken with several of our pilots and everyone agrees that the pay raise is fair and the package is a great starting point. Therefore, why would we be ignorant and actually make a stand that would lead to our unemployment. Yes, I hate the fact that we lost 70 of our comrades and it sucks the way the company handled the situation. However, should we all lose our jobs because of it? I don’t think so and I don’t think that is what the 70 pilots would want us to do.

In case anyone forgot, we are in the middle of an economical mess when jobs are limited and airlines are closing. Besides the rising price of fuel we also have to face higher costs of food and other living expenses. This does not seem like a good time to start looking for a job because our Union is being stupid and making a stand against a 30% pay raise.

Our negotiating committee seems to be on their own agenda and has stopped listening to the pilot group. The pilot group wants a pay raise, fair work rules and a JOB. The current path that the negotiating committee is on will lead to none of that. Therefore, if they are not representing what we desire then why should we pay our dues. That is like going to a restaurant and paying for a meal that you never get. We do not have time to elect new representation so we have to deal with what we have. So the only way we can get their attention and make them listen to us again is by a financial pinch and by strongly voicing our opinion.

So lets make a stand a remind the Union who they work for….Please step up and contact M and E (two of your 1108 leaders) and the others of the 1108 to remind them they work for us and we want to keep our jobs.

It is your 1108 that has kept your job this far. The International has let the 1108 know if the company does not continue to negotiate a resolution to the "Black Friday Massacre" and a CBA they will close the doors on Flight Options. Nothing you say or do will change that fact. If you think the Teamsters will let 500 jobs set a precedence for further union busting actions you are very naive. The 70 or so will be returned to work if they choose to come back or you will be out of a job as well period!
Further more, I spoke with a few of the affected pilots and they all ready have a attorney of thier own ready to go if they don't get a resolution through their union's course of action.

 

[B19 Flyer]

It is your 1108 that has kept your job this far. The International has let the 1108 know if the company does not continue to negotiate a resolution to the "Black Friday Massacre" and a CBA they will close the doors on Flight Options. Nothing you say or do will change that fact. If you think the Teamsters will let 500 jobs set a precedence for further union busting actions you are very naive. The 70 or so will be returned to work if they choose to come back or you will be out of a job as well period!
Further more, I spoke with a few of the affected pilots and they all ready have a attorney of thier own ready to go if they don't get a resolution through their union's course of action.

This is basic union business and they will say what they want, but behind closed doors they are nothing more than a bargaining chip.

 

[CA1900]

There isn't a union in the world that has given up pay and/benefits to protect the bottom third of a seniority list or fired pilots.

Except for 1108, which did exactly that to get better basing privileges and a substantial raise for the bottom few hundred guys on the Netjets list.

But you don't deal in real-world examples; how quickly I forget.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Except for 1108, which did exactly that to get better basing privileges and a substantial raise for the bottom few hundred guys on the Netjets list.

But you don't deal in real-world examples; how quickly I forget.

Union history with aviation is as real world as it gets.

NJ upgraded an existing contract, the change wasn't made because the carrier was strapped and they were looking for concessions to stay out of financial trouble.

Historically, when a carrier is strapped for cash, the union will always negotiate for higher wages and fewer pilots than to keep all the pilots and take a pay cut to save their jobs.

 

[CA1900]

NJ upgraded an existing contract, the change wasn't made because the carrier was strapped...

Wholly irrelevant. You said, "There isn't a union in the world that has given up pay and/benefits to protect the bottom third of a seniority list or fired pilots." On that point, you're wrong.

Historically, when a carrier is strapped for cash, the union will always negotiate for higher wages and fewer pilots than to keep all the pilots and take a pay cut to save their jobs.

You mean the way AirTran's union agreed to a 10% pay cut after 9/11 to keep from having to furlough?

Keep those "union facts" coming...

 

[400pilot]

I was told by a dependable and trustworthy source in CGF that HIG has instructed the company to shut the doors and liquidate all assets beginning in July if the Union will not agree to negotiate with the current proposal the company has offered. HIG did not pay that much for Flight Options and they feel they can get their money back with a small return and then invest it into an actual business that will work. Knowing this, I would say we take B’s email very seriously.

A few points.....

1. HIG payed over $250 for Options.
2. Prior to the sale, Raytheon had disclosed that cost to buy back shares and existing sales exceeded $550 million.
3. Flight Options leases everything except its core fleet of about 40 aircraft, most of which are beechjets. All Xs and Legacys are leased.

If HIG were to liquidate, it might get around $200 to $250 million for the aircraft. This does not take into account time for sale of aircraft and the fair market reduction that would occur when the market becomes saturated with excess stock. They would also have to buy back sales and contracts. Even if it is only half of what Raytheon claimed last year, that means HIG is into it for $500 million +. They are not going to recover their investment if they liquidate. In fact, they will lose at least twice what they paid.

Also, companies do not just liquidate in such a short period of time after acquisition without various attempts at making a profit. This especially holds true for something as financially insignificant as a contract that would not cost much more than what they just offered. No one in their right mind would throw away $500 million over $10 million.

You are either lying because you want the carrot, or were lied to and are ignorant enough to believe it. Why don't you go check out our chairman's response to Bob's letter. I know the people on the MEC and they are good, honorable men. They are pilots here and want a contract as bad as you do..plus there is no fruit or benefit to them for lying about anything. Ask yourself who benefits the most from not having a contract. Ask yourself who benefits the most from delaying a contract. The answer is clear.....

 

[fischman]

Three years of turmoil, a stagnant airline with no growth and now a failing economic environment, and it's clear, your union didn't get it done.

What do airlines have to do with this?

 

[William Holiday]

To each and every Flight Options Pilot.

You already work for a company.......

You already work for a company that will change the rules and BLAME YOU for it.....no examples needed here...You all know what I'm speaking of.

You already work for a company a company that wont even protect its sickest employees. YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR INSURANCE....USE YOUR LONG TERM DISABILTY to make your cobra payments. WE DON'T CARE IF YOU HAVE A ROOF OVER YOUR HEAD or FOOD TO EAT!

You already wor for a company that will fire you for no cause.

NO CGF 1 ARR
No Written Warning
No Verbal Warning
No Warning.....period

You already work for compny, that won't even give a
employee survey.. They know how bad you have it.
They just don't care.

You already work for a company, that now, wants to take the last thing that you do control.......YOUR DIGNITY AND YOUR SELF RESPECT.

This fight is much bigger than Flight Options. Many thousands are watching.....and waiting.

Don't let......FEAR.......be your guide.

 

[HSDriver]

MS, F&H, Bob, Epply, Marker, et all...

Every pilot I have talked to is disregarding your deadline and ready to close the doors on this place if you can't meet industry standard. Best of luck to you all, and good luck to the next group of pilots MS ventures on to.

HS

 

[B19 Flyer]

What do airlines have to do with this?

The same thing that IBT and truck drivers have with 1108. They are the same thing as pilots, right? They both have operators who are certificated to transport goods nationwide and have the same union control them.

You don't know the difference between a drop, a drip, a seepage and a leak, I sure as hell wouldn't expect you to understand the finer points of certifying 91K, 135 and 121 air carriers that are all certificated under Part 119.

 

[B19 Flyer]

[/color][/size][/font]Wholly irrelevant. You said, "There isn't a union in the world that has given up pay and/benefits to protect the bottom third of a seniority list or fired pilots." On that point, you're wrong.




You mean the way AirTran's union agreed to a 10% pay cut after 9/11 to keep from having to furlough?

Keep those "union facts" coming...

Actually, I was thinking about ALL THE OTHERS that didn't and furloughed thousands.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

There isn't a union in the world that has given up pay and/benefits to protect the bottom third of a seniority list or fired pilots.

Wrong..... look at NJ.....
To the union, they are simply the cost of doing business. Always have been, always will be.
Wrong again...no one will be left behind, any novice lawyer will tell you that... $$$$
Dig your feet in, scream, yell and say whatever you want, the union has failed you at Flight Options to this point. Those guys are toast, and the decision to place a union on the property is in large part responsible for their job losses
Wrong yet again, Blame F and H... standard operating procedures
Three years of turmoil, a stagnant airline with no growth and now a failing economic environment, and it's clear, your union didn't get it done.
When did Flops become and Airline??
These guys are gonna "show" those managers, just like the Eastern guys did.
Sigh...this arguement is getting old, need I remind you, B:
The old way is not the way...
The ancient truth not literal today....
I can only imagine what the boards are going to write about me when it goes down as I said it would.
Easy, Your the same scumbag who still thinks he can see into the future and brays forth his misguided thoughts like a wounded donkey. Furthermore, you are a confused individual who thinks you were married to a very angry broad shouldered man.
Not a single person on these boards will ever admit "they got what they asked for!"

Rubbish, pure, Rubbish spewed forward by the Almighty Fear Grenade tosser....

Boom! There goes another calculated tactic by F and H....gee whiz, I wonder what is next in their playbook...

.. Stall Stall, cry poverty, take hostages, make threats....give up, take money, and run for the next easy management target.


Stay Strong Brothers and Sisters..stay strong.. You are never alone and always appreciated.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Rubbish, pure, Rubbish spewed forward by the Almighty Fear Grenade tosser....

Boom! There goes another calculated tactic by F and H....gee whiz, I wonder what is next in their playbook...

.. Stall Stall, cry poverty, take hostages, make threats....give up, take money, and run for the next easy management target.


Stay Strong Brothers and Sisters..stay strong.. You are never alone and always appreciated.

Beginner....

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Beginner....

Is that all you got???? You disappoint me...