Stop extending Nja brothers

[BentOver]

Since about 4 years ago we had this very same ....discussion we'll call it....over the contractual rights. Etc.... I'll try to head of any hand grenades coming your way..

There is contractual and there is the " unwritten rule".. Those that didn't get beat up in high school, or actually competed in team sports, understand the idea of teammates, or " brothers" ( I use the term loosely).

You are correct that the 18 day guys, who are the guys who most likely need the extra $$, should not be expected to reduce their usual income because of a furlough ( although anyone who does opt out is helping, and I'm sure it is appreciated)... I know guys on the 18 day personally, and I would never expect a guy with 2 kids and a stay at home mom to survive on the 7/7...

. the extended day issue is a whole other ball of wax. It is guys covering for the shortcomings of management, gaining extra $$ above their pay grade, and possibly averting selloffs which are somewhat vital to facilitating a recall. Exactly the same as airline guys picking open time.. ( I'm an airline guy so anyone who tells me different is wrong). Someone who extends is profiting while others are suffering... If an extender needs to make extra cash, bid a different schedule.. Period

 

[Hogprint]

That's 98 extended duty days in the month of August. That may include several days for one pilot during his/her tour, such as GLC pilots. Let's use a the number of 1200 pilots on duty every day of the month. That's 36,000 total duty days. The extended days amount to 0.27% of the total duty days in any given month. Yea, 98 looks like a big number by itself, but broken down the total number of duty days involved sheds a different light, don't you think?

Personally I won't extend, but exercising one's contractual right is not something I will judge. For example, one of our pilots is trying to deal with a family member with stage 4 prostate cancer. That person may well extend when possible to deal with the costs beyond insurance benefits. Are all for a valid reason such as this example? Heck no, but I don't know so will not judge. Be PO'd at the EMT for their practice of divide and conquer. Doubt their effectiveness? Just go to the majors board and watch those guys rip each other apart.

Good gouge there Pervis. As I posted earlier I haven't seen anyone extending and a vocal majority against it. it's a small percentage as you proved that are doing this and I think it's safe to say we need to stop this kind of witch hunt. It didn't work last time and it wont do anything this go round.

 

[brokeflyer]

And if they do that more than 11 days per quarter we start getting recalled.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

they have to "report" more than 11 sell off's.


what they do and what they tell the union is very far from truth.

 

[imacdog]

Good gouge there Pervis. As I posted earlier I haven't seen anyone extending and a vocal majority against it. it's a small percentage as you proved that are doing this and I think it's safe to say we need to stop this kind of witch hunt. It didn't work last time and it wont do anything this go round.

The actual percentage seems small until you consider that every single extended day helps prevent the company from subcontracting flights to other companies and pilots.

 

[Pervis]

The percentage is actually smaller. Those on the original NJI scales don't get after midnight compensation. They get an extended day that is accumulated at the end of each quarter. So those stuck in Moscow on day 6 and get two or three days of airlining are listed on the duty summary as extended days when in fact they were not voluntary at all. More than half of the 98 days in Aug were GLC type. While not all are old scale pilots, it does reduce the voluntary numbers even more.

 

[gutshotdraw]

The percentage is actually smaller. Those on the original NJI scales don't get after midnight compensation. They get an extended day that is accumulated at the end of each quarter. So those stuck in Moscow on day 6 and get two or three days of airlining are listed on the duty summary as extended days when in fact they were not voluntary at all. More than half of the 98 days in Aug were GLC type. While not all are old scale pilots, it does reduce the voluntary numbers even more.

Absolutely correct. A few months ago, I was in Europe and was asked to extend. Ah, tempting, but, NO. My airline home exceeded 18 hours of duty time. Because I am still on the NJI pay scale, I received one day's extra pay and it was coded as an extended day.

There's always more to the story.

 

[jtf]

I just did my part by rejecting an extended day. This was my first offer on at least five years. We are already at one day of sell offs for the quarter. They will be begging hard for extensions for the next six months. I have a feeling they will just start intentionally doing after midnights on a much more regular basis to get full day sevens of flying without even pretending to try to get us home. This has been on a small uptick already.

 

[Wankel7]

I just did my part by rejecting an extended day. This was my first offer on at least five years. We are already at one day of sell offs for the quarter. They will be begging hard for extensions for the next six months. I have a feeling they will just start intentionally doing after midnights on a much more regular basis to get full day sevens of flying without even pretending to try to get us home. This has been on a small uptick already.

Thank you very much for doing that!

What fleet are you on?

 

[jtf]

I'm on the mighty Excel.

 

[Downwind]

Aren't those getting a little long in the tooth?

 

[DC-4]

Jtf
I am in the top 20 to be recalled. Thank you very much for doing what you did and continue to do. Please also tell others that you talk to on line that do the same I said thank you as well. While I am paying my bills fine and my family is fine I have to maintain 2 jobs to do it. So I am in the I would take the recall right now if it were offered. Thank you again.

 

[imacdog]

Aren't those getting a little long in the tooth?

Some maybe, but I flew some brand new ones when I was at NJA.

 

[Heavy Set]

Spoke with an XLS crew today in the van to the same hotel today. Both pilots seemed quite unhappy with the situation at Netjets complaining that:

1. Understaffed (reason why you need to bring furloughees back)
2. Shorter overnights leading to much higher fatigue levels
3. No real movement from fleet to fleet unless your fleet loses airplanes
4. Claimed certain fleets are proving very unreliable (thank goodness CL350s are coming)
5. Claimed many FOs "talking" about applying to legacies but waiting to see new contract terms

It was an eye-opening conversation but I always take them with a grain of salt, but I have heard this theme consistently recently. Tough situation. I hope some furloughees get called back gradually to provide some schedule relief (especially with the busy holidays approaching) because QOL sounded like it has degraded. Makes you wonder how many furloughees now employed elsewhere (e.g., Jet Blue, Part 91, etc.) would even consider returning to be on the bottom of that list...

 

[CA1900]

Some maybe, but I flew some brand new ones when I was at NJA.

Many of those are now rolling over past 10,000 hours. They're getting up there.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Spoke with an XLS crew today in the van to the same hotel today. Both pilots seemed quite unhappy with the situation at Netjets complaining that:

1. Understaffed (reason why you need to bring furloughees back)

Some fleets are. Some fleets aren't. Overall, my WAG is we're currently about 150 short due to training float and increased demand.

2. Shorter overnights leading to much higher fatigue levels

That happens when computers do most of the scheduling with ZERO lookback at the crew's previous workload.

3. No real movement from fleet to fleet unless your fleet loses airplanes

Getting a LITTLE better with the arrival of new airframes.

4. Claimed certain fleets are proving very unreliable (thank goodness CL350s are coming)

Some fleets have always had more "issues" than others. If anything, the previously reliable fleets are starting to have more problems primarily due to age and short-sighted maintenance policy.

5. Claimed many FOs "talking" about applying to legacies but waiting to see new contract terms

Good surfers ride the FRONT of a wave. This contract fight will be another 24 months, minimum. Why wait to apply? You can ALWAYS say no. Anybody at NJA with a 4 digit seniority number and still in the career window for a legacy that isn't applying to every legacy even considering adding pilots, needs to rethink. Immediately.

It was an eye-opening conversation but I always take them with a grain of salt, but I have heard this theme consistently recently. Tough situation. I hope some furloughees get called back gradually to provide some schedule relief (especially with the busy holidays approaching) because QOL sounded like it has degraded. Makes you wonder how many furloughees now employed elsewhere (e.g., Jet Blue, Part 91, etc.) would even consider returning to be on the bottom of that list...

Degradations in QOL on the road have many causes including, but not limited to, Jordy and the union-busting playbook, metrics and the union-busting playbook, schedulers and the union-busting playbook, and the vagaries of this stupid career we hate to love. Or love to hate. Or something like that.

Did I mention the union-busting playbook?

 

[Twotter76]

Just for the record I'm in the Falcon and was offered to start a day early this week. It seems to be more and more prevalent lately. Needless to say I did not dignify their request with a response.

 

[BentOver]

Anyone FO not taking a good hard look at the legacies, given a longish career still, should have their head examined.....if ya wait til after a NJA contract you'll be about 3 years too late.

Of course sugar momma's, independently wealthy or special situations are the exception. But if you're a normal everyday Joe not married to a Dr. What are ya waiting for.... Upgrade into a Phenom after a 15+ year stint as a SIC????

 

[jetlag7]

Pretty good summary of what's going on.

3. No real movement from fleet to fleet unless your fleet loses airplanes

This particular issue has done a fine job of ticking-off the group.

Officially, the company has declared every fleet type "in disposal" which allows them to displace pilots into other fleets at will.

Seniority has little bearing on who goes where.

They're able to do this by exploiting a loophole within the contract (which I can't fault them for utilizing, considering it's most likely saved them lots of $$ in training costs), but that doesn't make it any more palatable.

 

[Xcorporate]

Earlier in the day I run into a captain I used to fly with at NJ. He declared it would be a matter of months for recalls to start. Running ragged and no way they can keep the pace through the busy season. 3 hours later, different FBO, different NJ captain I used to fly with told me it would be years. Nothing will happen until a contract is signed at that will take some time. So that's the latest I heard from guys on the road.

 

[gunfyter]

My guess is CBA first unless forced by sell offs. They are doing it with the flight attendants ... Not hiring even though we need more now. Like maybe 30.