Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Stop extending Nja brothers

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
I think the only way we can slow that number down is to emphasize to the active group that extending is hurting them(not us furloughed). There are many who feel the plight of the 495 outcasts, but many don't care or even know we're still furloughed. Pilots through history have shown they protect their own ass first and foremost. If these guys realize they are screwing themselves, maybe that number will drop and we the furloughed will benefit from their scraps. Pathetic to say that, but I see no other way. That 98 figure is pathetic....
 
That's 98 extended duty days in the month of August. That may include several days for one pilot during his/her tour, such as GLC pilots. Let's use a the number of 1200 pilots on duty every day of the month. That's 36,000 total duty days. The extended days amount to 0.27% of the total duty days in any given month. Yea, 98 looks like a big number by itself, but broken down the total number of duty days involved sheds a different light, don't you think?

Personally I won't extend, but exercising one's contractual right is not something I will judge. For example, one of our pilots is trying to deal with a family member with stage 4 prostate cancer. That person may well extend when possible to deal with the costs beyond insurance benefits. Are all for a valid reason such as this example? Heck no, but I don't know so will not judge. Be PO'd at the EMT for their practice of divide and conquer. Doubt their effectiveness? Just go to the majors board and watch those guys rip each other apart.
 
Well Written Post Pervis, you make some valid points don't agree with them all but none the less some food for thought for sure.
 
Agree, that puts the number into perspective. I do wish we had a better vehicle to communicate these days than a public forum.

I support the active pilot group, but this union has made it hard to not feel divided. We are far from conquered though.

Thanks for the scale on the extended days.....
 
Pervis,
Thanks for the numbers and a different way of looking at it. It is a drop in the bucket and a small one. I would guess it is a feel good thing of not picking up open time and a show of solidarity if nothing else. Thanks again

Thoughts on the 18 day and it's impact?
 
It would be nice to see them be at a place where the company had to force guys to the 18 day not the other way around. But it takes time to bid guys off of it. That's why we need to start a push now for that.

I just don't want to see the pilots ripping each other over it. No code red just yet :)
 
You really should focus on what's preventing recalls, not what you think is.

In reality, the inability of pilots to leave is what's causing the lack of recalls. When there is incentive and financial ability of people to retire or there is the ability on pilots to find emeployment elsewhere, in large numbers, the company will be forced to recall.

We saw this witch hunt during that past negotiations, referencing extenders. This didn't delay anything. The CBA was signed only after the pledge was followed by some 300 pilots. 300 out of 1500!!!!

But it's easy to focus on the extenders as bad people....similar to hunting pets. But I know you'll continue to focus on this minute percentage of a percentage.

This tactic does nothing but stir up unwanted strife within the ranks. All this does is make it a hostile place to work. The majors know very well what goes on at "other" places. Perhaps going to work, dealing with your own work day, and forgetting about what others are doing, or not doing, would better serve you, and others... At least then, we wouldn't develop the worst attitude of any workforce since, USair and America west merged.... Because this is where we are headed.....
 
Sorry to say this Ghost but the reputation of NJA pilots' attitudes goes a ways back.
 
Ghostrider
I think you bring up alot of valid points. However the thought that this will only divide and cause strife within the group is wrong. That was done along time ago. I will also argue that that the division is not with the active line guys and the furloughed guys, not at all. Its with the union. If you want me to send you via PM all the crap that the union has done to us over the last 4 years I will be happy to. I will not post it in open forum because that would be in bad taste and I will not do that even to NJASAP. However if your an active line pilot like I think you are I am more than happy to let you know. The more active line pilots that know what is going on with the union and the furloughed the better. It will not make you happy though I will warn you right now, that your union is treating the so called brothers like they are.
 
I applaud your restraint from taking all union misbehavior public. Although they have left the furloughed group no other means with which to communicate. It is scary how badly they have behaved under the presumption that nobody was watching....
 
Ca1900
Yes and No, The company only has to let 10% of the pilots off the 18 day per bid period. So you can see how they could drag that out for pretty much forever.
 
It means that if you have 100 guys on the sched then they can enforce that clause and only let 10 guys off. Then the next bid period there are 90 guys on it and now they contractually can just let 9 guys off ect. ect. ect.
 
Xcorporate said:
98 extended days in one month! And the union supports this?
When did they stop working for us?
Click to expand...

This won't be popular, but something to consider...

They didn't stop working for you, but they also work for the guys extending and on the 18 day. Most guys don't want to extend or work the 18 day, so it's easy to say don't extend or work the 18 day schedule. If a guy was working the 18 day before the furlough, you're asking him to give something up. What are the 7 and 7 guys giving up? If everyone in the union gave up 10 percent of their pay, the problem would be solved. The union could pay the furloughed guys to just stay home, but that won't ever happen. It's much easier to ask someone else, especially those in the minority, to give something up. By the way, if everyone worked their normal schedule and extended only when they wanted to, the company would be right sized if all of the trips were covered. You're trying to force a recall and scheduling inefficiency by asking pilots to give up something they are entitled to, and if that weren't enough, you're overtly indignant about it. I'm not sure that attitude is helping your cause.

OK, ready for incoming...
 
Last edited:
Since about 4 years ago we had this very same ....discussion we'll call it....over the contractual rights. Etc.... I'll try to head of any hand grenades coming your way..

There is contractual and there is the " unwritten rule".. Those that didn't get beat up in high school, or actually competed in team sports, understand the idea of teammates, or " brothers" ( I use the term loosely).

You are correct that the 18 day guys, who are the guys who most likely need the extra $$, should not be expected to reduce their usual income because of a furlough ( although anyone who does opt out is helping, and I'm sure it is appreciated)... I know guys on the 18 day personally, and I would never expect a guy with 2 kids and a stay at home mom to survive on the 7/7...

. the extended day issue is a whole other ball of wax. It is guys covering for the shortcomings of management, gaining extra $$ above their pay grade, and possibly averting selloffs which are somewhat vital to facilitating a recall. Exactly the same as airline guys picking open time.. ( I'm an airline guy so anyone who tells me different is wrong). Someone who extends is profiting while others are suffering... If an extender needs to make extra cash, bid a different schedule.. Period
 
Pervis said:
That's 98 extended duty days in the month of August. That may include several days for one pilot during his/her tour, such as GLC pilots. Let's use a the number of 1200 pilots on duty every day of the month. That's 36,000 total duty days. The extended days amount to 0.27% of the total duty days in any given month. Yea, 98 looks like a big number by itself, but broken down the total number of duty days involved sheds a different light, don't you think?

Personally I won't extend, but exercising one's contractual right is not something I will judge. For example, one of our pilots is trying to deal with a family member with stage 4 prostate cancer. That person may well extend when possible to deal with the costs beyond insurance benefits. Are all for a valid reason such as this example? Heck no, but I don't know so will not judge. Be PO'd at the EMT for their practice of divide and conquer. Doubt their effectiveness? Just go to the majors board and watch those guys rip each other apart.
Click to expand...

Good gouge there Pervis. As I posted earlier I haven't seen anyone extending and a vocal majority against it. it's a small percentage as you proved that are doing this and I think it's safe to say we need to stop this kind of witch hunt. It didn't work last time and it wont do anything this go round.
 
Hogprint said:
Good gouge there Pervis. As I posted earlier I haven't seen anyone extending and a vocal majority against it. it's a small percentage as you proved that are doing this and I think it's safe to say we need to stop this kind of witch hunt. It didn't work last time and it wont do anything this go round.
Click to expand...

The actual percentage seems small until you consider that every single extended day helps prevent the company from subcontracting flights to other companies and pilots.
 
The percentage is actually smaller. Those on the original NJI scales don't get after midnight compensation. They get an extended day that is accumulated at the end of each quarter. So those stuck in Moscow on day 6 and get two or three days of airlining are listed on the duty summary as extended days when in fact they were not voluntary at all. More than half of the 98 days in Aug were GLC type. While not all are old scale pilots, it does reduce the voluntary numbers even more.
 
Pervis said:
The percentage is actually smaller. Those on the original NJI scales don't get after midnight compensation. They get an extended day that is accumulated at the end of each quarter. So those stuck in Moscow on day 6 and get two or three days of airlining are listed on the duty summary as extended days when in fact they were not voluntary at all. More than half of the 98 days in Aug were GLC type. While not all are old scale pilots, it does reduce the voluntary numbers even more.
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct. A few months ago, I was in Europe and was asked to extend. Ah, tempting, but, NO. My airline home exceeded 18 hours of duty time. Because I am still on the NJI pay scale, I received one day's extra pay and it was coded as an extended day.

There's always more to the story.
 
I just did my part by rejecting an extended day. This was my first offer on at least five years. We are already at one day of sell offs for the quarter. They will be begging hard for extensions for the next six months. I have a feeling they will just start intentionally doing after midnights on a much more regular basis to get full day sevens of flying without even pretending to try to get us home. This has been on a small uptick already.
 
jtf said:
I just did my part by rejecting an extended day. This was my first offer on at least five years. We are already at one day of sell offs for the quarter. They will be begging hard for extensions for the next six months. I have a feeling they will just start intentionally doing after midnights on a much more regular basis to get full day sevens of flying without even pretending to try to get us home. This has been on a small uptick already.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for doing that!

What fleet are you on?
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom