Still think we're better off without ALPA?

[fifty30retard]

ALPA is inefficient and listless, but I DO think that B6 is in need of a union, without doubt. Just not that broken excuse of a union.

Seems to be working for Alaska, Hawaiian, FEDEX, and Delta. Define inefficient? and listless? You're going to have to come up with something other than raw emotion from a failed bankrupt airline, or broke feeder operation.

 

[CitationLover]

JetBlue pilots pay TWICE what our ALPA represented "colleagues" pay at the other majors.

It's no fantasy. It's quite real. And a CBA would have our negotiated premiums included in it so that they could not be changed every year.

Right now, I have no idea what JetBlue will do to my premiums every year. Indeed, they can do anything, including canceling the entire plan.

How exactly is that better than a CBA? And whose butt should I be kissing? I think a swift kick to the groin would be more appropriate.

You do realize 90+% work without a CBA in this country and somehow survive? Welcome to the REAL world. ALPA still lives in some lulu land where the "market" was set by 70 years of government subsidization.

You do realize the total premium isn't set by jetBlue? They subsidize the total premium that an insurer gives to them. You think jetBlue magically creates a premium out of air to spite the (insert workgroup here)? I'd bet also jetBlue negotiates and is out into New York insurance rates, but hey something simple like that must not cross your one track mind.

So what is it? Inept management who can cost out health plans and screw the pilot group over? If they're inept how do they get one over in the pilot group? The bean counters can give two shiites what the pilot group thinks or any group. They're directed from senior management to cut 10%, that's it. It's that simple. If you own jetBlue stock look in the mirror, it's those who clamor for higher returns driving this in addition to a corporate mentality of cost cutting (this has nothing to do with airlines but more to do with corporate mentalities all around).

If you think management is screwing you over without a union, it's laughable to think your situation would improve adding some other giant entity as a "middle man". Like any other large organization they will take their cut and you get screwed. You get a CBA wow! Guess what, look at the threads here, those things get broken EVERY day and arent worth the paper their written on.

Save your two percent.

 

[CitationLover]

Seems to be working for Alaska, Hawaiian, FEDEX, and Delta. Define inefficient? and listless? You're going to have to come up with something other than raw emotion from a failed bankrupt airline, or broke feeder operation.

Bankruptcy does a wonder for the majority of the carriers you list. The other actually charges the proper amount for their product and makes boatloads of cash unlike passenger airlines.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Deleted

 

[StarChecker]

You do realize 90+% work without a CBA in this country and somehow survive? Welcome to the REAL world.

So because 90% work without the protections of a CBA, I should too? Huh?

And jetBlue is self-insured, so they do set the premiums and the coverage. So yes, they tailor these rates to maximize the amount I have to pay.

And just look at what happened in BDL this weekend to judge how inept our management is.

 

[fifty30retard]

You do realize 90+% work without a CBA in this country and somehow survive? Welcome to the REAL world. ALPA still lives in some lulu land where the "market" was set by 70 years of government subsidization.

You do realize the total premium isn't set by jetBlue? They subsidize the total premium that an insurer gives to them. You think jetBlue magically creates a premium out of air to spite the (insert workgroup here)? I'd bet also jetBlue negotiates and is out into New York insurance rates, but hey something simple like that must not cross your one track mind.

So what is it? Inept management who can cost out health plans and screw the pilot group over? If they're inept how do they get one over in the pilot group? The bean counters can give two shiites what the pilot group thinks or any group. They're directed from senior management to cut 10%, that's it. It's that simple. If you own jetBlue stock look in the mirror, it's those who clamor for higher returns driving this in addition to a corporate mentality of cost cutting (this has nothing to do with airlines but more to do with corporate mentalities all around).

If you think management is screwing you over without a union, it's laughable to think your situation would improve adding some other giant entity as a "middle man". Like any other large organization they will take their cut and you get screwed. You get a CBA wow! Guess what, look at the threads here, those things get broken EVERY day and arent worth the paper their written on.

Save your two percent.

Great Econ 101 diatribe, you get a C -. This is about money, pilots' share of revenue, the revenue they alone generate. Your capitalist model is missing the key ingredient, which is pilots. No bucks, no Buck Rogers. Did you hear that? It's your TA telling you to resubmit your extra credit assignment to improve your grade.........

 

[CitationLover]

So because 90% work without the protections of a CBA, I should too? Huh?

And jetBlue is self-insured, so they do set the premiums and the coverage. So yes, they tailor these rates to maximize the amount I have to pay.

And just look at what happened in BDL this weekend to judge how inept our management is.

I see you don't know what self insured means.

Did you know jetBlue wasn't an ALPA shop when you went there? Management put a gun to your head?

 

[CitationLover]

Great Econ 101 diatribe, you get a C -. This is about money, pilots' share of revenue, the revenue they alone generate. Your capitalist model is missing the key ingredient, which is pilots. No bucks, no Buck Rogers. Did you hear that? It's your TA telling you to resubmit your extra credit assignment to improve your grade.........

Oh yes cause ALPA has had its shares of wins in terms of getting that revenue. The only revenue they guarantee getting is 2% of yours.

All the power to you, if you think ALPA is your meal ticket go for it.

 

[StarChecker]

Did you know jetBlue wasn't an ALPA shop when you went there? Management put a gun to your head?

Oh the humanity. Did you apply here? Because you have the talking points memorized already.

Yes I knew JetBlue was non-union when I was hired. I also knew what they paid.

I found out the first day of indoc that my prescriptions costs were increasing four-fold from my regional. I have discovered over the last 5 years how well my concerns are addressed. How my committees that are supposed to replace a union have no seat at the table, no voice, no power.

So what am I supposed to do? Vote no because you think I should? Vote no because of you getting furloughed? I'm sorry that happened to you, but it has nothing to do with us securing a CBA.

Come work here for a few years....then we'll talk.

 

[Lake Alice]

You do realize 90+% work without a CBA in this country and somehow survive? Welcome to the REAL world. ALPA still lives in some lulu land where the "market" was set by 70 years of government subsidization.

You do realize the total premium isn't set by jetBlue? They subsidize the total premium that an insurer gives to them. You think jetBlue magically creates a premium out of air to spite the (insert workgroup here)? I'd bet also jetBlue negotiates and is out into New York insurance rates, but hey something simple like that must not cross your one track mind.

So what is it? Inept management who can cost out health plans and screw the pilot group over? If they're inept how do they get one over in the pilot group? The bean counters can give two shiites what the pilot group thinks or any group. They're directed from senior management to cut 10%, that's it. It's that simple. If you own jetBlue stock look in the mirror, it's those who clamor for higher returns driving this in addition to a corporate mentality of cost cutting (this has nothing to do with airlines but more to do with corporate mentalities all around).

If you think management is screwing you over without a union, it's laughable to think your situation would improve adding some other giant entity as a "middle man". Like any other large organization they will take their cut and you get screwed. You get a CBA wow! Guess what, look at the threads here, those things get broken EVERY day and arent worth the paper their written on.

Save your two percent.

Actually you are wrong. Jetblue does set the premiums. The benefits of self-insured are more company biased than employee. Under self-funded plans, the employer decides what benefits are offered, determines whether claims are appropriate, and processes and pays claims. Provided it complies with certain federal regs and with the improved cash flow of the plan it can set the premiums or subsidize them further. Though Jetblue limits our access to plan literature and data the 33% increases we are subject to this year alone indicates a significant lack of subsidy.
Under a CBA the issues above are negotiated and not simply passed on to the employee.

 

[fifty30retard]

Oh yes cause ALPA has had its shares of wins in terms of getting that revenue. The only revenue they guarantee getting is 2% of yours.

All the power to you, if you think ALPA is your meal ticket go for it.

You work at a 35% discount to SWA, your peer. What's with 2%? You people are stupid.

 

[fifty30retard]

Bankruptcy does a wonder for the majority of the carriers you list. The other actually charges the proper amount for their product and makes boatloads of cash unlike passenger airlines.

You work for a company bringing in $5 billion a year with 167 airplanes and you're too scared and blue to ask for your share. Good work. This place is very very very far away from bankruptcy, it is centered on all the disposable income in America, New York City.

Wake up, the money slips by every day and you won't see a dime without a CBA.

 

[CitationLover]

You work at a 35% discount to SWA, your peer. What's with 2%? You people are stupid.

Us airways - in house but long time ALPA. How do they compare to SWA?

How about united?

I notice you didnt list Virgin. I'm betting management looks at them as a peer.

Selectively comparing to the outlier is nice. Your 2% at ALPA gains you nothing, your down 2% till the next CBA.

 

[CitationLover]

Actually you are wrong. Jetblue does set the premiums. The benefits of self-insured are more company biased than employee. Under self-funded plans, the employer decides what benefits are offered, determines whether claims are appropriate, and processes and pays claims. Provided it complies with certain federal regs and with the improved cash flow of the plan it can set the premiums or subsidize them further. Though Jetblue limits our access to plan literature and data the 33% increases we are subject to this year alone indicates a significant lack of subsidy.
Under a CBA the issues above are negotiated and not simply passed on to the employee.

No, you're wrong. If what you say is true, jetBlue could sell insurance. They price the plan through insurance companies who create all of what you list and they underwrite it and administer it. Underwrite = set the rates. JetBlue then gets a total cost and sets a subsidy based on a corporate decision. Sounds like they're decreasing said subsidy just like 99% of all employers out there. You think ALPA can stop a freight train like that? You're dreaming. Be realistic. Howd they do post 9/11 with that freight train?

You are also in lala land with the CBA. You negotiate health care rates every year when costs and plan provisions and networks dramatically swing? How long is the average CBA negotiated, three years? Say Obamacare comes into being what then? A CBA is the dumbest place to negotiate a benefits package, especially retirement ones (as the active members could give a crap about retired ones who pay no dues).

 

[Fubijaakr]

I bet the CA in BDL is wishing he had a Union rep about now. Hope it never happens to you.

 

[UpNDownGuy]

No, you're wrong. If what you say is true, jetBlue could sell insurance. They price the plan through insurance companies who create all of what you list and they underwrite it and administer it. Underwrite = set the rates. JetBlue then gets a total cost and sets a subsidy based on a corporate decision. Sounds like they're decreasing said subsidy just like 99% of all employers out there. You think ALPA can stop a freight train like that? You're dreaming. Be realistic. Howd they do post 9/11 with that freight train?

You are also in lala land with the CBA. You negotiate health care rates every year when costs and plan provisions and networks dramatically swing? How long is the average CBA negotiated, three years? Say Obamacare comes into being what then? A CBA is the dumbest place to negotiate a benefits package, especially retirement ones (as the active members could give a crap about retired ones who pay no dues).

Please tell me you don't work for JetBlue, and never want to work here.

We don't need number 1184 on the clueless train.

 

[CitationLover]

Please tell me you don't work for JetBlue, and never want to work here.

We don't need number 1184 on the clueless train.

That's a great rate of return on your potential two percent. ALPAs track record must be outstanding in owning management in say the last 10 years. I guess I am clueless. Bet the winner.

I've said nothing about JetBlue management or gave an opinion on them yet you think I'm their stooge. I'm sure they're quite clueless and care only about the next quarter as every other senior management team in corporate America thinks. I am just trying to save you 2% that's all.

 

[UpNDownGuy]

Thanks, I'm a big boy and can make my own decisions.

I've been ALPA twice in my career, and IBT once. I've also been on two ALPA organizing committees, and held virtually every position in ALPA leadership. I know what I'm getting with ALPA, and as someone currently employed by JB, I can tell you we need them. I don't care about 2% dues when they can screw around with my insurance and pay at will, and I have zero job security.

 

[fifty30retard]

Thanks, I'm a big boy and can make my own decisions.

I've been ALPA twice in my career, and IBT once. I've also been on two ALPA organizing committees, and held virtually every position in ALPA leadership. I know what I'm getting with ALPA, and as someone currently employed by JB, I can tell you we need them. I don't care about 2% dues when they can screw around with my insurance and pay at will, and I have zero job security.

Exactly. When you work at a 35% discount (total cost as expressed in PCASM), 2% is nothing, in fact it's less than 2%, it's 1.95%.

Negotiating a competitive compensation and benefit package on par with Alaska/Hawaiian/SWA is the answer. $5 billion is a lot of money to leave on the table.

 

[StarChecker]

I bet the CA in BDL is wishing he had a Union rep about now. Hope it never happens to you.

You are unfortunately 100% correct. They now have him making recordings for the whole company to hear how his statement was taken out of context. He's the headline of our company website. It's positively terrifying.

But 1193 dopes are fine with that...:angryfire

 

[StarChecker]

I am just trying to save you 2% that's all.

I'm sure the Captain of Flt 504 is perfectly thrilled he's saving 2%. You're right, you get absolutely NOTHING for your 2%....

 

[CitationLover]

Without 2% all the ca had to say was speak to my attorney and say no. Not my fault he doesn't have a back bone.

 

[CitationLover]

Exactly. When you work at a 35% discount (total cost as expressed in PCASM), 2% is nothing, in fact it's less than 2%, it's 1.95%.

Negotiating a competitive compensation and benefit package on par with Alaska/Hawaiian/SWA is the answer. $5 billion is a lot of money to leave on the table.

You actually think ALPA will negotiate a SWA raise. Who is drinking Kool-aid here?

All the JetBlue pilots have a say in the matter. It's called two feet and walk out the door. Sadly if it really is as bad as you say, people will not want to come there. Think that will fly in our profession?

 

[StarChecker]

Without 2% all the ca had to say was speak to my attorney and say no. Not my fault he doesn't have a back bone.

His what?!?! What was that word? A-T-T-O-R-N-E-Y??

What attorney? From where? Who pays for an attorney?

You're right again. MUCH cheaper to not pay 2% and pay for an attorney out of his own pocket.

You don't work here and you don't know what you're talking about. But you'd make a great VP of Ops...we may be posting for one soon.

 

[CitationLover]

His what?!?! What was that word? A-T-T-O-R-N-E-Y??

What attorney? From where? Who pays for an attorney?

You're right again. MUCH cheaper to not pay 2% and pay for an attorney out of his own pocket.

You don't work here and you don't know what you're talking about. But you'd make a great VP of Ops...we may be posting for one soon.

You must not know any attorneys, most of whom would have jizzed in their pants to take on his case with the publicity it generated.

Better call Saul.

 

[Smarta$$]

That's a great rate of return on your potential two percent. ALPAs track record must be outstanding in owning management in say the last 10 years. I guess I am clueless. Bet the winner.

I've said nothing about JetBlue management or gave an opinion on them yet you think I'm their stooge. I'm sure they're quite clueless and care only about the next quarter as every other senior management team in corporate America thinks. I am just trying to save you 2% that's all.

You don't know what you are talking about.

 

[CitationLover]

You don't know what you are talking about.

Any facts to back that blanket stmt?

 

[Splert]

You do realize 90+% work without a CBA in this country and somehow survive?

90% of the world errr USA don't work in a seniority system.

That is why we need a CBA among other things like the IRC.

 

[Dizel8]

Having an attorney in his case would be nice, having 2300 of his fellow pilots and ALPA legal behind him would be so much better.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Having an attorney in his case would be nice, having 2300 of his fellow pilots and ALPA legal behind him would be so much better.

Amen, Dizel. For those who say, "Hire your own attorney," here's the scenario.

You get called in but say "I'll bring my attorney." They say, never mind, you're fired.

It takes you a couple years to get your job back and then its with a LARGE target on you. Guess what happens on your next sim ride?

With ALPA, there's a system of discipline and appeal that happen WHILE you're still employed.

Yeah, that's worth 2% to me.