Still think we're better off without ALPA?

[B6Busdriver]

If ALPA is such a distastful idea. Which I happen to agree with. Why not start a drive for your own internal union? As I understand the process there is no cool down required between union card votes. Of course I am no expert.

How do you finance an inhouse union?
Are you willing to pay assessments to get an inhouse up and running?
Are you willing to pay higher dues then ALPA carriers?
Is it worth it to pay more and get less just to not be part of ALPA?

An inhouse union is pie-in-the-sky. I'll vote for it but I guarantee within 3 years of starting an inhouse folks will realize the need for a union like ALPA.

 

[fifty30retard]

okay, the top 1k voted anti union ( they got there's) the bottom 1k voted ALPA same ol story

Not true, the intelligent folks who live by the core values of the company voted for ALPA, to strengthen the operational integrity of the company and give pilots an equal playing field. A lot of those folks are in the top 1000, and a lot in the top 100. They know the drill.

 

[fifty30retard]

How do you finance an inhouse union?
Are you willing to pay assessments to get an inhouse up and running?
Are you willing to pay higher dues then ALPA carriers?
Is it worth it to pay more and get less just to not be part of ALPA?

An inhouse union is pie-in-the-sky. I'll vote for it but I guarantee within 3 years of starting an inhouse folks will realize the need for a union like ALPA.

Perfect analogy, you need $5,000,000 for an effective start-up. AirTran and Jazz both had access to ALPA's MCF after certification, and B6 would have as well with a similar pilot size.

Would you be willing to be assessed $2,000 individually for an in-house start up? How would the in house fare against a hostile kicked in the teeth management team? What resources would it have? How much would renting professional services from ALPA cost? How much would that assessment be?

Don't fool yourself, the last election was won by a greedy management team intent on keeping you unrepresented so they can keep the revenue for themselves and keep you in a blue fog, anticipating anticipation, and nothing else. ALPA would've been a monetary game changer for them now and they just got a 2 year reprieve from it, and very large bonuses for the delay.

 

[aewanabe]

Comparing apples to oranges...

Stop reading that crap off of the bluepilots website. It went up to 154 from 141 on a semi-monthly basis. Don't read stuff or believe stuff from a one sided conversation. Guys are quoting the plan that pays 100%. Care 1 is what most people have and that is what I quoted. If you're going to rip get your $hit straight. It went up 26 bucks a month. The care plus plan which you quoted only went up about 10% as well. Unless your fanmily has recuring medical problems or special needs you be stupid if you're not on Care 1. Stop reading what those tards preach on bluepilots. Half of them screw it up. At least don't post it unless you KNOW it's true. All that said any rise in medical prices SUCKS.

The white elephant crapping all over your arguement is this: the only reason most of us use Care 1 is because we can't f'in afford the Plus plan. By the way, my crappy regional was also self-insured, and my coverage was slightly better than the Plus plan, with premiums less than Care 1. Which one of our "Values" does that little tidbit fall under?

 

[CitationLover]

I love the statement about health care plans negotiated through a union as having "competent" representation. Haha. Did they hire a benefits consulting firm like Mercer, Towers, or Hewitt? I don't think so. Hate to tell you but those "experts" in benefits that unions employ is like bragging about your doctor who graduated from a Caribbean medical school.

Welcome to real life people and not some fantasy world ALPA sells you on. EVERYONEs medical costs are going up as employers cut back benefits. This isn't anything the airline biz has cornered. jetBlue pilots should be kissing the butts of all those who voted ALPA off property as saving them 2%.

 

[Dizel8]

"Only went up 10%!" Is that like "de minimus?"

Well, the devils will be in the details, so we will have to wait and see. Secondly aewanabe does indeed present a very valid point!

 

[StarChecker]

Welcome to real life people and not some fantasy world ALPA sells you on. EVERYONEs medical costs are going up as employers cut back benefits.

JetBlue pilots pay TWICE what our ALPA represented "colleagues" pay at the other majors.

It's no fantasy. It's quite real. And a CBA would have our negotiated premiums included in it so that they could not be changed every year.

Right now, I have no idea what JetBlue will do to my premiums every year. Indeed, they can do anything, including canceling the entire plan.

How exactly is that better than a CBA? And whose butt should I be kissing? I think a swift kick to the groin would be more appropriate.

 

[fifty30retard]

I love the statement about health care plans negotiated through a union as having "competent" representation. Haha. Did they hire a benefits consulting firm like Mercer, Towers, or Hewitt? I don't think so. Hate to tell you but those "experts" in benefits that unions employ is like bragging about your doctor who graduated from a Caribbean medical school.

Welcome to real life people and not some fantasy world ALPA sells you on. EVERYONEs medical costs are going up as employers cut back benefits. This isn't anything the airline biz has cornered. jetBlue pilots should be kissing the butts of all those who voted ALPA off property as saving them 2%.

American Eagle medical (ALPA) is 33% what jetblue is. You got furloughed from a failed company with no more money. ALPA or any union can't unfvck a bad business model or incompetent management.

 

[CitationLover]

American Eagle medical (ALPA) is 33% what jetblue is. You got furloughed from a failed company with no more money. ALPA or any union can't unfvck a bad business model or incompetent management.

The ad hominem attack is nice but shows you know nothing about medical plans. What does Midwest failing have to do with this?

Whopdee doo about 33% less. What's the coverage parameters: HMO vs PPO? Coinsurance? Lifetime caps? Prescription drugs? In network/out of network parameters?

Sorry but Eagle can spread out costs over all of AMR which is much larger than jetBlue. AMR can drive it's costs downs with providers because the negotiate typically over eagle, American, and corporate. Eagle itself is bigger than jetBlue. In terms of total compensation. (which is what you should be looking at) shall we compare an FO at jetBlue to Eagle?

 

[Sir Innocenti]

ALPA is inefficient and listless, but I DO think that B6 is in need of a union, without doubt. Just not that broken excuse of a union.

 

[fifty30retard]

ALPA is inefficient and listless, but I DO think that B6 is in need of a union, without doubt. Just not that broken excuse of a union.

Seems to be working for Alaska, Hawaiian, FEDEX, and Delta. Define inefficient? and listless? You're going to have to come up with something other than raw emotion from a failed bankrupt airline, or broke feeder operation.

 

[CitationLover]

JetBlue pilots pay TWICE what our ALPA represented "colleagues" pay at the other majors.

It's no fantasy. It's quite real. And a CBA would have our negotiated premiums included in it so that they could not be changed every year.

Right now, I have no idea what JetBlue will do to my premiums every year. Indeed, they can do anything, including canceling the entire plan.

How exactly is that better than a CBA? And whose butt should I be kissing? I think a swift kick to the groin would be more appropriate.

You do realize 90+% work without a CBA in this country and somehow survive? Welcome to the REAL world. ALPA still lives in some lulu land where the "market" was set by 70 years of government subsidization.

You do realize the total premium isn't set by jetBlue? They subsidize the total premium that an insurer gives to them. You think jetBlue magically creates a premium out of air to spite the (insert workgroup here)? I'd bet also jetBlue negotiates and is out into New York insurance rates, but hey something simple like that must not cross your one track mind.

So what is it? Inept management who can cost out health plans and screw the pilot group over? If they're inept how do they get one over in the pilot group? The bean counters can give two shiites what the pilot group thinks or any group. They're directed from senior management to cut 10%, that's it. It's that simple. If you own jetBlue stock look in the mirror, it's those who clamor for higher returns driving this in addition to a corporate mentality of cost cutting (this has nothing to do with airlines but more to do with corporate mentalities all around).

If you think management is screwing you over without a union, it's laughable to think your situation would improve adding some other giant entity as a "middle man". Like any other large organization they will take their cut and you get screwed. You get a CBA wow! Guess what, look at the threads here, those things get broken EVERY day and arent worth the paper their written on.

Save your two percent.

 

[CitationLover]

Seems to be working for Alaska, Hawaiian, FEDEX, and Delta. Define inefficient? and listless? You're going to have to come up with something other than raw emotion from a failed bankrupt airline, or broke feeder operation.

Bankruptcy does a wonder for the majority of the carriers you list. The other actually charges the proper amount for their product and makes boatloads of cash unlike passenger airlines.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Deleted

 

[StarChecker]

You do realize 90+% work without a CBA in this country and somehow survive? Welcome to the REAL world.

So because 90% work without the protections of a CBA, I should too? Huh?

And jetBlue is self-insured, so they do set the premiums and the coverage. So yes, they tailor these rates to maximize the amount I have to pay.

And just look at what happened in BDL this weekend to judge how inept our management is.

 

[fifty30retard]

You do realize 90+% work without a CBA in this country and somehow survive? Welcome to the REAL world. ALPA still lives in some lulu land where the "market" was set by 70 years of government subsidization.

You do realize the total premium isn't set by jetBlue? They subsidize the total premium that an insurer gives to them. You think jetBlue magically creates a premium out of air to spite the (insert workgroup here)? I'd bet also jetBlue negotiates and is out into New York insurance rates, but hey something simple like that must not cross your one track mind.

So what is it? Inept management who can cost out health plans and screw the pilot group over? If they're inept how do they get one over in the pilot group? The bean counters can give two shiites what the pilot group thinks or any group. They're directed from senior management to cut 10%, that's it. It's that simple. If you own jetBlue stock look in the mirror, it's those who clamor for higher returns driving this in addition to a corporate mentality of cost cutting (this has nothing to do with airlines but more to do with corporate mentalities all around).

If you think management is screwing you over without a union, it's laughable to think your situation would improve adding some other giant entity as a "middle man". Like any other large organization they will take their cut and you get screwed. You get a CBA wow! Guess what, look at the threads here, those things get broken EVERY day and arent worth the paper their written on.

Save your two percent.

Great Econ 101 diatribe, you get a C -. This is about money, pilots' share of revenue, the revenue they alone generate. Your capitalist model is missing the key ingredient, which is pilots. No bucks, no Buck Rogers. Did you hear that? It's your TA telling you to resubmit your extra credit assignment to improve your grade.........

 

[CitationLover]

So because 90% work without the protections of a CBA, I should too? Huh?

And jetBlue is self-insured, so they do set the premiums and the coverage. So yes, they tailor these rates to maximize the amount I have to pay.

And just look at what happened in BDL this weekend to judge how inept our management is.

I see you don't know what self insured means.

Did you know jetBlue wasn't an ALPA shop when you went there? Management put a gun to your head?

 

[CitationLover]

Great Econ 101 diatribe, you get a C -. This is about money, pilots' share of revenue, the revenue they alone generate. Your capitalist model is missing the key ingredient, which is pilots. No bucks, no Buck Rogers. Did you hear that? It's your TA telling you to resubmit your extra credit assignment to improve your grade.........

Oh yes cause ALPA has had its shares of wins in terms of getting that revenue. The only revenue they guarantee getting is 2% of yours.

All the power to you, if you think ALPA is your meal ticket go for it.

 

[StarChecker]

Did you know jetBlue wasn't an ALPA shop when you went there? Management put a gun to your head?

Oh the humanity. Did you apply here? Because you have the talking points memorized already.

Yes I knew JetBlue was non-union when I was hired. I also knew what they paid.

I found out the first day of indoc that my prescriptions costs were increasing four-fold from my regional. I have discovered over the last 5 years how well my concerns are addressed. How my committees that are supposed to replace a union have no seat at the table, no voice, no power.

So what am I supposed to do? Vote no because you think I should? Vote no because of you getting furloughed? I'm sorry that happened to you, but it has nothing to do with us securing a CBA.

Come work here for a few years....then we'll talk.

 

[Lake Alice]

You do realize 90+% work without a CBA in this country and somehow survive? Welcome to the REAL world. ALPA still lives in some lulu land where the "market" was set by 70 years of government subsidization.

You do realize the total premium isn't set by jetBlue? They subsidize the total premium that an insurer gives to them. You think jetBlue magically creates a premium out of air to spite the (insert workgroup here)? I'd bet also jetBlue negotiates and is out into New York insurance rates, but hey something simple like that must not cross your one track mind.

So what is it? Inept management who can cost out health plans and screw the pilot group over? If they're inept how do they get one over in the pilot group? The bean counters can give two shiites what the pilot group thinks or any group. They're directed from senior management to cut 10%, that's it. It's that simple. If you own jetBlue stock look in the mirror, it's those who clamor for higher returns driving this in addition to a corporate mentality of cost cutting (this has nothing to do with airlines but more to do with corporate mentalities all around).

If you think management is screwing you over without a union, it's laughable to think your situation would improve adding some other giant entity as a "middle man". Like any other large organization they will take their cut and you get screwed. You get a CBA wow! Guess what, look at the threads here, those things get broken EVERY day and arent worth the paper their written on.

Save your two percent.

Actually you are wrong. Jetblue does set the premiums. The benefits of self-insured are more company biased than employee. Under self-funded plans, the employer decides what benefits are offered, determines whether claims are appropriate, and processes and pays claims. Provided it complies with certain federal regs and with the improved cash flow of the plan it can set the premiums or subsidize them further. Though Jetblue limits our access to plan literature and data the 33% increases we are subject to this year alone indicates a significant lack of subsidy.
Under a CBA the issues above are negotiated and not simply passed on to the employee.