Stealth Age 67 to 70

[fam62c]

Age 67: The hot rumor going around is that the retirement age for pilots is going to be changed to 67 shortly. I have been told that this is more rumor than fact. The issue was being lobbied by the regional carriers who are in a panic over the drain of pilots to the majors and their inability to backfill their operation especially with the higher flying time required for new pilot hiring. There was a brief spurt of activity in DCA, then it closed up like a clam. So as far as I can find out, there is nothing happening at this time that would lead to a change in the retirement age.

The regional carriers based their business plans on an endless supply of inexpensive labor and now they they think that the continuation of that supply is somehow an entitlement that the government should protect for them. They know that they only way they can keep enough pilots working for them at low wages is to be able to trap them there by maintaining a surplus of pilots and assuring slow career progression. I can't wait for the day when, hopefully, the laws of supply and demand start to swing and be in out favor for once.

 

[madjack]

I say we bring back age 60...working forever is a curse

 

[fob727]

Yeah, thanks gramps for your concern but I was potty trained a few decades ago. What's a matter... your depends is over flowing and forgot to make a Walmart run today?

Not even close, Boy! Grow up, deal with it and quit your bitching.

 

[Dan Roman]

This dialogue by professional pilots? Really?

+1...... Scary isn't it.

 

[Dan Roman]

When these gummers started with the majors 25+ years ago, they knew that their career was up at age 60. Should of could of would of...... whatever! The point is this: Lay in the bed you've made! Poor financial planning and/or losing self control (ie. not keeping your johnson in the pants on layovers, multiple failed marriages, forsaken children all over the map, etc.) is their problem, not ours. If it's not poor planning and execution, then it's greed-simple as that! Get a life 'cause life is short or do I have to explain that one too?

If you keep your eyes open you'll someday realize life throws a lot of unexpected curve balls. If your smart you figure out how to deal with it and actually grow from it. But this industry is loaded with pilots that were promised a retirement they had earned and had it taken away. Future generations of pilots no longer have the sweet retirement most expected and now need to be smart enough to max out their 401k's. The older pilots don't have that luxury. It's not their fault.

 

[Dan Roman]

BTW, I'm calling bul******************** on the rumor, I say it was started by a few over emotional reactionary jerks to stir the put because of their own agenda.

 

[Flopgut]

BTW, I'm calling bul******************** on the rumor, I say it was started by a few over emotional reactionary jerks to stir the put because of their own agenda.

It most certainly is happening. And if you'd like to confirm yourself I can get you in contact with CAL ALPA legislative affairs. Specifically, old guys are asking FAA Administrator for waivers past 65 kinda like were given to ATC.

If you keep your eyes open you'll someday realize life throws a lot of unexpected curve balls. If your smart you figure out how to deal with it and actually grow from it. But this industry is loaded with pilots that were promised a retirement they had earned and had it taken away. Future generations of pilots no longer have the sweet retirement most expected and now need to be smart enough to max out their 401k's. The older pilots don't have that luxury. It's not their fault.

Not their fault?! Pilots have always lost pensions... Hang on, did you not get the same advise about 30 years ago?! Obviously not. 401K="luxury"? YGTBSM Dan?! They all just got 5 more years at the top, what other "luxury" does the profession owe them?

Bottom line: The age got increased. It happened; The arguement you once had needs to be updated. You need to let some social enforcement pass thru your lips and advise your fellow old pilots that you all took a windfall and now need to take responsibility and leave. You either need to be professional enough to do that, or ethical enough to admit that you all just want to drink upstream of the herd longer.

 

[fam62c]

luckily it's an election year which means that nothing will get done on this anytime soon. There are too many other things going on for this to even be on the radar. Having said that I think it will eventually get moved beyond 65 at the ICAO level and then the USA will follow like before. The rest of the world is already running short on pilots and 65 will eventually cause the same problem in the USA, that's what will prompt the rule change because that's what the industry will want.

The airlines don't ever want to see pilots (or any labor group) have supply and demand working in their favor, it gives them too much leverage.

 

[Boxboy]

If you keep your eyes open you'll someday realize life throws a lot of unexpected curve balls. If your smart you figure out how to deal with it and actually grow from it. But this industry is loaded with pilots that were promised a retirement they had earned and had it taken away. Future generations of pilots no longer have the sweet retirement most expected and now need to be smart enough to max out their 401k's. The older pilots don't have that luxury. It's not their fault.

Thanks for your concern but you don't need to worry about me. You see, I am responsible and have been saving for a rainy day unlike alot of your geezer friends. I have a pension plan but I do not factor it into my overall retirement. If it stil exists when I retire it will be a windfall, kind of like the age 65 rule for ya'll gummers.
Losing a pension plan is not their fault but poor planning is! The airline pilot's pay back in the day was high enough to buy a Cadillac every month.... isn't that the old saying? I don't have the slightest sympathy for these geezers when they show me pictures of their airplanes, RVs, boats, and/or vacation homes and then bitch about their retirement, or lack thereof. Yeah, you are right..... the current generation of pilots had better smarten up and max out our savings and the 401k because we don't have the luxury to be spoiled like the gummers!
As I've said before, it's either poor planning or greed. Atleast be accountable for your actions!

 

[eaglesview]

I always love this topic.

I know the older pilots think it's their right to stay as long as they like; to tell the young apprentice FOs to earn their keep.

Honestly what if this rule was going on 30 years ago when these "retired" guys were looking to move up the ladder. 30 years ago would they have said "yes, I agree, increase the age, I haven't earned the left seat yet, I need to wait another decade to increase my career movement." I'm pretty sure they would be saying the same things young guys are saying now.

It's all prospective where you are in life.

And is it fair they get to stay on top, extend their career, and hope the finish line get moved again. For them yes, for the rest of us no.

I know this is going to be unpopular but here goes. "They" not I did have stagnation early in there careers. Many older UA pilots spent over 10 years in the engineer seat before any real movement was flet. Same occured at Pan Am,
TWA and maybe some other places.

Stagnation in the airline business is not unique to the past 5 years. It is a cyclical business.

Ok let me have it because I "defended" the "gummers".

 

[livin'thesim]

This would not be the first group of craven, cowardly old men to steal the careers and livelihoods of others.

 

[737tanker]

BTW, I'm calling bul******************** on the rumor, I say it was started by a few over emotional reactionary jerks to stir the put because of their own agenda.

According to my AME the FAA Doctors in OKC are working on new medical standards for all pilots when the age is changed past 65. It is difficult to get government employees to make changes based on facts, let alone rumors, so I don't think it is only a rumor.

 

[fr8doggie]

It most certainly is happening. And if you'd like to confirm yourself I can get you in contact with CAL ALPA legislative affairs. Specifically, old guys are asking FAA Administrator for waivers past 65 kinda like were given to ATC.

Lot's of guys applied for waivers before the age was changed to 65. Below you will see the number of waivers that were granted:

ZERO

Anyone is free to apply for a waiver. My guess is that they will receive the same number of waivers the pre-age 65 guys got:

ZERO

You guys are getting all wound up about nothing. Come December 12(?), People will be hitting 65 and out at all of the 121 carriers. Enjoy it. It's already happening at FDX.

Regards,
Fr8doggie

 

[ackattacker]

Rumors... I know a guy who talked to a guy who worked at XYZ who said somebody was working on this.

Folks, it ain't happening. On so many levels. The age 65 rule cannot be changed overnight. For one thing, we're an ICAO member state and the ICAO rule is 65. Period end of story. If Congress decided to "go rogue" and pass age 67, those guys couldn't fly internationally so what's the point? Beyond that you have the standard legislative and bureaucratic timeframes. Hearings, comment periods, etc. Stuff has to be published on the register and open for lobbying and all angles studied to death. Congress has to pass it, then the FAA has to publish the rule with an appropriate timeframe for implementation. No one at the FAA or Congress is going to stick their neck out and try to *relax* safety standards secretly and out of the blue. Can you imagine the outcry? The whole "waiver" thing is a non-starter, as well, and for the same reasons.

Not even worth getting riled up about.

 

[Quimby]

If you keep your eyes open you'll someday realize life throws a lot of unexpected curve balls. If your smart you figure out how to deal with it and actually grow from it. But this industry is loaded with pilots that were promised a retirement they had earned and had it taken away. Future generations of pilots no longer have the sweet retirement most expected and now need to be smart enough to max out their 401k's. The older pilots don't have that luxury. It's not their fault.

Of course. It's always someone else's fault.

uke: