Standby Duty at Flex

[ArtVandalay]

You know, if the company would just NOT CALL during rest, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

[brokeflyer]

thats why my pager is off...I do them a favor and make it so they don't have to burden that job of calling me.

When you are told you are OFF even if you have time left they cant call you back out for ANYTHING.

On is ON and OFF is OFF.....you are either one or the other, per the regs.

It's really easy to understand.

 

[CL300Pilot]

It sounds like you are both right.

You might want to talk to your ACP. I'm not saying it is right, only that it is the policy in place.

I flew with a guy who had this very issue. They were "off duty" at 1700 lcl and in rest at 0000 lcl. Had they only been "working" for 4 hours, then the company could have called them back to the airport with the 1 1/2 hour call out and fly them using the 1 hour close out as well. The way it was explained is that the company is using these late "in rest" times so that we answer our phones prior to our "in rest" times. If you have worked you 6 hours and they are putting you "off duty", call dispatch and tell them you are gong to dinner and wonder if there is any reason to not have an adult beverage.

I hope this helps clear your issues up.

 

[GREAT LAKES]

:laugh:

That there are pilots that see this is as acceptable is absolutely mind-boggling to me.

You're on duty, or you're on rest. There is no inbetween. If you're on the hook to go to the airport at the company's whim, you're on duty, and it should be treated as such. That doesn't mean you have to rot at the airport -- it just means you have to be available when they want you, and that means you're on duty. There's no reason that duty period can't start at the hotel if they need someone on-call.

I'll give you a real-world example, since this is how NetJets operates. Here's how my day was scheduled today: 6am show for an 8:30am flight. I wake up at 5, and overnight, the company has pushed back the showtime by designating my first hour as "duty at hotel." Great! I turn the ringer back on on the Blackberry, roll over, and go back to sleep for an hour. I'm on duty beginning at 6am, because I now have a present responsibility to report for work should the occasion arise.

I land at what turns out to be our destination for the night around 2pm. The company keeps us on duty at the FBO for three hours, then releases us from duty at 5. Tomorrow's schedule begins with a 10am showtime, which leaves me 17 hours free of duty.

My overnight consists of going out into town, walking around the harbor, stopping to get some Mexican food, enjoying a few Margaritas 'til late, and maybe catching a movie before bed. Why can I do this? Because my rest period is planned, and I know I don't need to wake up before 8. So I plan to go to sleep at midnight, get a good solid rest, and be able to put in a safe day tomorrow.

If you had the same schedule, your phone could ring at 3am, just a few hours after going to bed, and there's no way you'd be safe to fly. Then again, it might not ring. So what do you do?

Do you go to bed at 7pm, just in case? A lot of good that does you -- even if you managed to get to sleep that early, now you're up at 3-4am, and if your original schedule holds, you'll have been up for 6-7 hours before showing up for a potential 14-hour day. You'll have been available for duty to the company for 21 hours (3am to midnight.)

How is that safe?

Your not "on duty" until the company "assigns" you duty. Are you not resting because your phone "might" ring? The FAA has interpreted this both ways, and will not make a hard fast rule. It would be up to a Judge and Jury at that time to see who is right. Could go either way.

It is up to each individual company to interpret the rule and how they wish to handle it. It would certainly be nice if the FAA would put it in black and white IN THE REGS. Not hidden in some obscure legal interpretation that most pilots have no access to.

 

[brokeflyer]

Your not "on duty" until the company "assigns" you duty. Are you not resting because your phone "might" ring? The FAA has interpreted this both ways, and will not make a hard fast rule. It would be up to a Judge and Jury at that time to see who is right. Could go either way.

It is up to each individual company to interpret the rule and how they wish to handle it. It would certainly be nice if the FAA would put it in black and white IN THE REGS. Not hidden in some obscure legal interpretation that most pilots have no access to.

well they finally did.....part 91k

You're either ON or OFF......BLACK and WHITE.

 

[justmeinmsp]

ahhhh yes, finally somebody read 91K. Their answer, we comply with 135 because it is more restrictive. Ha Ha, no it's not

 

[glasspilot]

It must be "black and white" cause this thread has gone on 8 pages.

Here is what I know...you must have 10 hours of rest in the preceding 24 hours starting from the end of your scheduled day. Everything I posted is based on that. That's the law and that's what I do.

You go sit in an FBO and stand proud when the phone rings cause by God, you're off rest and are now required to. Black and White.

 

[wacoflyr]

Despite what would seem to be clear regs, the FAA has left a fair amount of wriggle room. Just recently, of course, lobbyists beat them silly in congress, so those with long intercon flights still have lousy rest rules.
What it comes down to in the frac world is this; who are you willing to let control your rest? If you want control, you can turn off your phone. This might upset management, and cost them a recovery flight, or prevent an owner from a last minute change of plans. Or, you can leave your phone on, giving the power over your rest to management, and trusting them to not abuse the privilege. In this case it is still the pilot's duty to make sure that he or she has adequate legal rest. (management cannot assign nor can the pilot accept...) In my not very humble opinion, it is better to work at a carrier where there is trust. I guess, however, if there is none, you turn the phone off. In the interest of disclosure, I'm an FO, and I'm gonna do what the PIC asks, as long as it is legal and safe.

Regards, Wacoflyr

 

[CA1900]

You go sit in an FBO and stand proud when the phone rings cause by God, you're off rest and are now required to. Black and White.

Who says I'm required to be in an FBO when I'm off rest?

I'm burning my duty day right now in my hotel because I'm not needed at the airport.