Standby Duty at Flex

[LizardEyes]

It is all about being FIT TO FLY !!!

CA 1900 explained it best, you are not fit to fly when your phone rings @ 3:00am. You are not safe and if you think you are because you are "manning up" then you are fooling yourself and putting your pax at risk. This is a safety issue. You need to man up to say I am not ready to fly after 5 hours of sleep.

 

[o2bflyn]

Come on...some of you guys are acting like children. If you have 10 hours of rest and are not in any way fatigued answer your phone. You are on the road anyway, what is the difference if you fly at 0900 or 1500.

If the practice is legal by the regs or contract, if you are not flying fatigued....be a man and go earn your paycheck.

For god sake people......some of you are just pathetic. When you guys are done feeling like you are "screwing the man", you will find out you are just screwing yourself.

 

[glasspilot]

Lets set this straight:

• I said "man up" and ANSWER the phone. I didn't say go fly with 5 hours of rest.
• In my operation it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a 0300 call. The earliest is 0500.
• There are THOUSANDS of corporate pilots who do exactly what we do and are tied to a pager. Their only protection is "fatigued" to which they can then lose their jobs. Why are you not concerned about their unsafe practices? I'm at least complying with 135 rest rules.
• Why would you trade endless hours in an FBO that happens all the time for protection against a 0300 call that happens once a year if that, when you can easily protect yourself from the same thing by just saying, "sorry, the schedule had me out at 1400 so I stayed up late and now I'm not fit to take the 0500 wheels up."
• I have never advocated flying without adequate rest. My QOL is just fine on the road. My QOL would take a major hit if I had to start going to the airport 5 or more hours early just so my company can force me to answer the phone. I'd rather simply answer the phone.

Say what you want but I'm all for a safe operation where crews are rested. I do not fly fatigued. I do answer my phone after rest periods, as does everyone else I know.

 

[bluepost]

Why does your company think you need to be at the airport to be on duty? Why not come on duty at 9am at the hotel, with a 2pm show at the airport for a 3pm flight?

If I have a 3pm show I stay up as late as possible, sleep as late as possible till 10 or 11am, to be ready for a 14 hour day starting at 2pm. That is my job and my duty to the company.

So maybe these guys you are asking to "man up" and to do their jobs, are doing exactly that.....being ready for a 14 hour day starting at 3pm.

I would say if your going to bed at 10pm the night before a 2pm show, that YOU are the one that should man up and do your job and properly plan your rest for what is scheduled, and not what you are hoping will happen.

 

[RP170]

Don't the FBO chicks look at you like you're crazy when you show up and tell them your here for a flight in 5 hours?

That must be why I can't pick up the FBO chicks! I sit at the FBO too much to impress them. Forget the big pay check! I want the chicks! I'm leaving NetJets.

 

[doh]

I have yet to be fatigued in fracland. 10 hours is not conducive to fatigue. 8 hours reduced every other night was killing me. 10 hours is heaven on a stick!

 

[brokeflyer]

well at least this thread quit making sence.....I'd hate to see it leave a bad mark on flightinfo......

 

[BeeDubya]

If the practice is legal by the regs or contract,

This becomes the real question, legality, and intrinsically tied to that (by FAA interpretive letter) is what the company expectation of the pilots is. If the pilot can answer or not answer at his/her choosing, it is different than if the pilot is expected to answer (perform duty) if the opportunity arise.

 

[brokeflyer]

nvrmind

 

[CA1900]

CA1900 summed it up. From his post his real world schedule was 0600 show for a 0830 flight. 2.5 hours to get ready at the airport! I show up at 0730 for a 0830 flight.

Did you read the rest of my message? My duty started at 0600, and that didn't change. The company wanted me rested and available in case something changed in the morning. It didn't, so I didn't leave the hotel 'til 7am for my 8:30 flight.

If you answer your phone and stop playing games with management then you get to stay at the hotel in comfort.

My duty period started a few minutes ago, yet I don't leave the comfortable hotel for two more hours. I'm on duty if they need me, and I'm properly rested for a duty period that began at 10am.

If you get all upity about calls during rest (even though it's been 18 hours of rest and it's 2 in the afternoon) ...

So when do you sleep during that up-to-18 hours of rest, knowing that you might be going to work (for up to 14 hours), beginning anywhere from 6am to 2pm?

Crash after crash has been caused by fatigued pilots. Making sure you're properly rested isn't "getting all uppity" -- it's doing the right thing.

 

[o2bflyn]

This becomes the real question, legality, and intrinsically tied to that (by FAA interpretive letter) is what the company expectation of the pilots is. If the pilot can answer or not answer at his/her choosing, it is different than if the pilot is expected to answer (perform duty) if the opportunity arise.

I see your point. I would venture to say that all companies expect their pilots to answer their phones if the are not in their mandated rest periods (faa or otherwise). If the phone rings within your 10 hour rest period, don't answer it if you don't want to. That is your legal right, but at 10 hours and 1 minute you should be answering it. It is professionalism people plain and simple. If you are not able to fly when they call tell them that, but don't just not answer the phone.

These companies hired professionals, not a 16 year olds flipping hamburgers. We all know the regs, we all knew the expectations....do the work!

The more we fly, the more the business can grow, the more we can get or "brothers/sisters" back into the cockpit.

Look beyond yourselves at the big picture.

 

[o2bflyn]

Why does your company think you need to be at the airport to be on duty? Why not come on duty at 9am at the hotel, with a 2pm show at the airport for a 3pm flight?

If I have a 3pm show I stay up as late as possible, sleep as late as possible till 10 or 11am, to be ready for a 14 hour day starting at 2pm. That is my job and my duty to the company.

So maybe these guys you are asking to "man up" and to do their jobs, are doing exactly that.....being ready for a 14 hour day starting at 3pm.

I would say if your going to bed at 10pm the night before a 2pm show, that YOU are the one that should man up and do your job and properly plan your rest for what is scheduled, and not what you are hoping will happen.

1. The benefit of having a crew at the FBO on duty is time. You have cut at least an hour off the lead time by sitting "hot standby."

2. Don't cloud yourself with the issue. The issue is answering the phone. If you want to tell them you ae fatigues because you were planning on a later show....fine. no one is saying you shouldn't. you SHOULD answer the phone. It takes two minutes and I am sure you can get your pretty head back to sleep if you need to.

 

[brokeflyer]

pager OFF until show time. 10 hours aint got anything to do with it anymore. That's just the minimum time off they can give you.

If i am given 12 hours OFF and my phone rings at 10.2 hours, I am required NOT to answer it.

 

[o2bflyn]

pager OFF until show time. 10 hours aint got anything to do with it anymore. That's just the minimum time off they can give you.

If i am given 12 hours OFF and my phone rings at 10.2 hours, I am required NOT to answer it.

Atta boy...look out for number one.

* now I remeber why I left this forum for a while.*

 

[brokeflyer]

Atta boy...look out for number one.

* now I remeber why I left this forum for a while.*

I hear that. im about ready to leave myself. This is getting outta hand.