Standby Duty at Flex

[FalconPilot69]

I have to respectfully disagree with you.....

Not so. If you still have time in your 14 hr duty day they can call you back to the airport with a 1.5 hr callout or have you do a drug test or whatever they need. You are still responible to answer your phone or return text messages to acknowledge changes until you go into rest.

If you are off duty, you are off duty. They cannot call you for a trip or any drug testing.

 

[Pacific]

You might want to talk to your ACP. I'm not saying it is right, only that it is the policy in place.

 

[Skytaxi]

Pacific is correct. If time in your 14hr day is available you can be called back to the airport, drug test etc. Don't drink until you legally know you can not be used.

 

[glasspilot]

There is no reg about drinking on "duty". The reg says you can't act as a crewmember within 8 hours of consumption and gives a BAC limit of .04.

If you block in, go to the hotel and have a beer it's legal. If the company then calls and says go fly...well you can't, that would be illegal.

 

[Skytaxi]

There is no reg about drinking on "duty". The reg says you can't act as a crewmember within 8 hours of consumption and gives a BAC limit of .04.

If you block in, go to the hotel and have a beer it's legal. If the company then calls and says go fly...well you can't, that would be illegal.

If the company calls you for a drug test while you still have duty left IE 14 hr day then what? What do you tell dispatch when then ask you to go back to the airport because you need to do a trip? Sorry been drinking? Yea you can say that, but you are still on duty and you'll have some explaining to do. Why chance it?
Remember you still belong to the company until your 14 hr day is up OR you are put into rest.

 

[ArtVandalay]

You know, if the company would just NOT CALL during rest, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

[brokeflyer]

thats why my pager is off...I do them a favor and make it so they don't have to burden that job of calling me.

When you are told you are OFF even if you have time left they cant call you back out for ANYTHING.

On is ON and OFF is OFF.....you are either one or the other, per the regs.

It's really easy to understand.

 

[CL300Pilot]

It sounds like you are both right.

You might want to talk to your ACP. I'm not saying it is right, only that it is the policy in place.

I flew with a guy who had this very issue. They were "off duty" at 1700 lcl and in rest at 0000 lcl. Had they only been "working" for 4 hours, then the company could have called them back to the airport with the 1 1/2 hour call out and fly them using the 1 hour close out as well. The way it was explained is that the company is using these late "in rest" times so that we answer our phones prior to our "in rest" times. If you have worked you 6 hours and they are putting you "off duty", call dispatch and tell them you are gong to dinner and wonder if there is any reason to not have an adult beverage.

I hope this helps clear your issues up.

 

[GREAT LAKES]

:laugh:

That there are pilots that see this is as acceptable is absolutely mind-boggling to me.

You're on duty, or you're on rest. There is no inbetween. If you're on the hook to go to the airport at the company's whim, you're on duty, and it should be treated as such. That doesn't mean you have to rot at the airport -- it just means you have to be available when they want you, and that means you're on duty. There's no reason that duty period can't start at the hotel if they need someone on-call.

I'll give you a real-world example, since this is how NetJets operates. Here's how my day was scheduled today: 6am show for an 8:30am flight. I wake up at 5, and overnight, the company has pushed back the showtime by designating my first hour as "duty at hotel." Great! I turn the ringer back on on the Blackberry, roll over, and go back to sleep for an hour. I'm on duty beginning at 6am, because I now have a present responsibility to report for work should the occasion arise.

I land at what turns out to be our destination for the night around 2pm. The company keeps us on duty at the FBO for three hours, then releases us from duty at 5. Tomorrow's schedule begins with a 10am showtime, which leaves me 17 hours free of duty.

My overnight consists of going out into town, walking around the harbor, stopping to get some Mexican food, enjoying a few Margaritas 'til late, and maybe catching a movie before bed. Why can I do this? Because my rest period is planned, and I know I don't need to wake up before 8. So I plan to go to sleep at midnight, get a good solid rest, and be able to put in a safe day tomorrow.

If you had the same schedule, your phone could ring at 3am, just a few hours after going to bed, and there's no way you'd be safe to fly. Then again, it might not ring. So what do you do?

Do you go to bed at 7pm, just in case? A lot of good that does you -- even if you managed to get to sleep that early, now you're up at 3-4am, and if your original schedule holds, you'll have been up for 6-7 hours before showing up for a potential 14-hour day. You'll have been available for duty to the company for 21 hours (3am to midnight.)

How is that safe?

Your not "on duty" until the company "assigns" you duty. Are you not resting because your phone "might" ring? The FAA has interpreted this both ways, and will not make a hard fast rule. It would be up to a Judge and Jury at that time to see who is right. Could go either way.

It is up to each individual company to interpret the rule and how they wish to handle it. It would certainly be nice if the FAA would put it in black and white IN THE REGS. Not hidden in some obscure legal interpretation that most pilots have no access to.

 

[brokeflyer]

Your not "on duty" until the company "assigns" you duty. Are you not resting because your phone "might" ring? The FAA has interpreted this both ways, and will not make a hard fast rule. It would be up to a Judge and Jury at that time to see who is right. Could go either way.

It is up to each individual company to interpret the rule and how they wish to handle it. It would certainly be nice if the FAA would put it in black and white IN THE REGS. Not hidden in some obscure legal interpretation that most pilots have no access to.

well they finally did.....part 91k

You're either ON or OFF......BLACK and WHITE.