Spirit Roadshow and TA vote

[say again]

I guess I don't understand your comment about industry average and leading compensation. If this is yours (proposed):

Captain:

Years of Service DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4

1 64.65 64.65 65.94 99.62 101.62
2 96.64 96.64 98.57 119.49 121.88
3 104.46 104.46 106.55 124.04 126.52
4 108.14 108.14 110.30 128.78 131.35
5 115.51 115.51 117.82 133.68 136.35
6 117.65 117.65 120.00 138.78 141.56
7 119.74 119.74 122.13 143.73 146.60
8 133.68 139.16 141.94 147.73 150.68
9 135.69 142.27 145.12 152.15 155.20
10 137.73 145.44 148.35 156.72 159.86
11 140.53 149.10 152.08 161.43 164.65
12 143.30 152.84 155.90 166.27 169.60
13 146.09 156.61 159.74 171.25 174.67
14 148.90 160.44 163.65 176.40 179.93
15 151.67 164.33 167.62 181.68 185.32

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]and this is Allegiant's (a place people have complained as being the lowest paying):[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]

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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Yours is lower, until a couple of years into a new contract. But, it's only higher in the upper tiers (years 12+). If a year 3 captain at Allegiant makes $136, and a year 3 captain at Spirit makes $105-126 (in the last year), how is that industry average? Please help me understand...[/FONT]

I understood him as the low pay is offset by the work rules. Correct me if Im wrong.

 

[lostplnetairman]

There aren't any 3 year captains. The most junior captain is 9 years. So, you see the rates going up beginning at 8 years.

Look the pie is only so big. They took care of the current pilot group, not a future pilot group that may or may not materialize.

 

[Beetle007]

Pay rate + workrules = compensation (your W2).

Our negotiators fought for a good contract...not just good payrates. Our current junior captain is 9 years and I don't think we will ever have less than 5 year captains. That is reflected in the payrates the negotiators fought for.

I did forget to mention a few very important things in your contract

Schedule Integrity:

A regular pilot is entitled to “schedule integrity,” that is, the right to take and remain on his bid trip and not be rescheduled so long as the trip operates, he is legal to fly the trip under the provisions of the FARs and this Agreement; and his estimated time of arrival on his current flight is no later than fifteen minutes 15) prior to his next flight’s scheduled or amended scheduled departure time, or he is displaced as provided in M.2 below.
2. Pilots who have voluntarily added reserve days prior to schedule assignments retain no schedule integrity for the subsequent trip.
3. When a line pilot is displaced from his assigned flight(s) by a management pilot, an IOE/Line Check Airman, or by a line pilot who is being trained or checked by an IOE/Line Check Airman, he shall be released for the trip hour period from which he is displaced and will receive trip pay pursuant to Sections 4.D.1 and .2. Such release will not be less than one calendar day. Displacement may only occur at the pilot’s domicile. A pilot may only be required to pick up the remainder of his original trip and in accordance with the time available provisions.

Junior Assignment:

2. Any pilot who is junior assigned will be paid for such junior assignment over and above his monthly guarantee, at two hundred percent (200%) of his applicable hourly rate, the greater of the hours flown or four hours. With crew scheduling’s concurrence, he may be restored an equal number of days off. The Company may only attempt to junior assign a pilot by calling him on his contact number(s). The Company is prohibited from involuntarily junior assigning the pilot through base operations, dispatch, flight control, phone patch to the aircraft, or on a Company layover. A pilot may not be given an involuntary junior assignment when scheduling has contacted the pilot for a purpose other than junior assigning. A pilot will not be junior assigned solely because he has contacted crew scheduling regarding routine inquiries.

Pay Protection:

Whenever the company drops a flight or trip...the pilot is 100% pay protected. If you pick up some flying on your days off and it gets cancelled...the pilot is 100% pay protected as if he flew the flights. Often the company offers to drop a trip in return for you picking up another trip. My friend made over 330 hours credit in one month because he kept getting trips dropped and picking up other trips. Scheduling was desperate! That is very unusual but it is not unusual for pilots to make 110 to 150 credit that live in base and offer to pick up trips in return for other trips being dropped. These pilots put their names on the "standing available list" and scheduling calls them when they are desperate. I'm amazed some airlines don't have 100% pay protection.

 

[boomlrd]

look at the pitiful FO pay too!!

 

[Beetle007]

look at the pitiful FO pay too!!

A current 3rd year FO is making $56.25/hr. They will be be getting a 37.07% raise by Aug 2011, 49.51% raise by end of Aug 2012, 66.35% raise by Aug 2013, and 77.65% raise by Aug 2014.

Could it be better...yes. More money is always better. However, we got a significant improvement for a 30 airplane airline that wants to be an ultra low cost carrier. We would have never got those raises without the help of the NMB in releasing us from negotiations (ahead of Air Tran and Pinnacle who have been negotiating longer).

 

[lostplnetairman]

And remember that Airtran pilots turned down their TA due to QA issues. To renegotiate them, they will have to reconsider pay in order to have a total compensation package.

 

[Noodles]

It didn't copy over right, but here are the Allegiant pay scales I was refering to:

Year Ca FO
12 153 92
11 151 92
10 148 92
9 146 92
8 143 92
7 141 92
6 139 92
5 138 88
4 137 82
3 136 78
2 134 66
1 131 41

I agree it can be made up in the workrules, but $11/hr (at initial yr 9 pay), needs a lot of workrules to help make up that kind of difference.

 

[likeitis]

A current 3rd year FO is making $56.25/hr. They will be be getting a 37.07% raise by Aug 2011, 49.51% raise by end of Aug 2012, 66.35% raise by Aug 2013, and 77.65% raise by Aug 2014.

Could it be better...yes. More money is always better. However, we got a significant improvement for a 30 airplane airline that wants to be an ultra low cost carrier. We would have never got those raises without the help of the NMB in releasing us from negotiations (ahead of Air Tran and Pinnacle who have been negotiating longer).

Does it really matter what the future pay rates are? When oil goes to 150 again they will force you to relinquish those raises anyway. I give it a less than 50% chance you will ever see dos +3 rates before the contract amendable date.

 

[lostplnetairman]

Does it really matter what the future pay rates are? When oil goes to 150 again they will force you to relinquish those raises anyway. I give it a less than 50% chance you will ever see dos +3 rates before the contract amendable date.

I want your crystal ball.

 

[likeitis]

I want your crystal ball.

None needed. What percentage of contracts in the last 20 years went the distance without management not weaseling out cuts? That is why it is more important to get the pay ASAP then some promise of it in the future.