Speculator's mocking the airlines

[BoilerUP]

NetJets provides a good product to their passengers, but it is quite expensive and is NOT more economical than a company-run flight department if they fly more than 200-250 hours per year.

Depending on the nature of one's business, airline service to where you work is may be unreliable, not time effective or just plan unavailable. Not everybody lives or has meetings in a city with an airline hub.

My boss bought an airplane 9 years ago because his TIME was more valuable than his money when it came to growing the business and being able to have some semblance of a family life.

Kind of like Cessna's new marketing campaign...

 

[Shrek]

Do you still tip YOURSELF when you clean the schitter?


Bye Bye--General Lee

ZZZZZiiiiiiiing !!


Nice one............lmao

 

[brainhurts]

Do you still tip YOURSELF when you clean the schitter?


Bye Bye--General Lee

I get the connection. Among the Net Jet boys, this guy was the fastest at cleaning the schitter and got himself a nick name. Jack Schitt. He scrubbed and scrubbed at those "dried on" schittt clumps and developed a technique for neutralizing the odor left by the bowels of the rich. He then may have washed his hands quickly so he could eat the leftover food off the lobster tray. Jack Schitt, it is obvious you are a flamer, and it is great you have a secure job for now, however negative karma works in strange ways. It is only going to take a deep recession to affect your clientele.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

It has nothing to do with speculators...Right!

Oil zoomed up to a new record today of $146.90 on false fears of problems with Iran, Nigeria, and a so-called strike at Brazillian oil factories.

If it wasn't the speculators causing the price to rise when any little thing bothers the oil market, then how the h*ll does this keep happening?

I know that I sure as h*ll am not worried about oil disruptions from Brazil or Iran. It's not me that's concerned about it, how about you???
I know the gas pumps won't run empty if Iran test fires some missiles, they probably won't miss one single gas station tanker delivery if the Brazillians go on strike either. The only thing that affects me is when the speculators drive the prices up.
Of course it's the god damn speculators; they're profiting off of all of our pain and they need to be stopped.

Luckily on Thursday June 26, 2008, H.R. 6377 passed the House of Representatives by a vote of 402 to 19 to limit the damage speculators can do on the oil market.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080711/bs_nm/markets_oil_dc

 

[milky]

Oil zoomed up to a new record today of $146.90 on false fears of problems with Iran, Nigeria, and a so-called strike at Brazillian oil factories.

If it wasn't the speculators causing the price to rise when any little thing bothers the oil market, then how the h*ll does this keep happening?

I know that I sure as h*ll am not worried about oil disruptions from Brazil or Iran. It's not me that's concerned about it, how about you???
I know the gas pumps won't run empty if Iran test fires some missiles, they probably won't miss one single gas station tanker delivery if the Brazillians go on strike either. The only thing that affects me is when the speculators drive the prices up.
Of course it's the god damn speculators; they're profiting off of all of our pain and they need to be stopped.

Luckily on Thursday June 26, 2008, H.R. 6377 passed the House of Representatives by a vote of 402 to 19 to limit the damage speculators can do on the oil market.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080711/bs_nm/markets_oil_dc

Honestly, this is one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read. It's representative of this site and what the media has put out to demonize somebody. It's very much a part of the class envy that the Democrat party wants to encourage.

Futures markets are a key component to just about every commodity that is sold in the U.S. (and the world, for that matter). The commodities markets provide a stabilizing effect on the volatile prices that would prevail in most commodities. Speculators (sic) do not control the prices. Futures contracts are bought and sold for a price that the purchaser feels the market will bear. Users of the commodities buy those contracts for a future date in order to know a certain price for that commodity. For example, an airline may pay slightly higher than the current price for gas two months from now because they think the price is going up, and they want to know for sure what they will pay. So, they can set the price of a plane ticket for that date knowing what their actual cost will be. This is done with all sorts of products.

The 'speculators' do not set the price of the contracts. They buy and sell them at a price that they believe that the market will bear at a future date. If they feel that the market for a commodity is going to go down in a month's time, they will not buy contracts for higher, but they would buy it for lower. This has been the case plenty of times in the past with oil. The futures markets for oil are not being affected by the speculators that have been so demonized. The markets have been affected by market forces such as higher demand, limited supply, declining U.S. currency, and many others.

Bottom line is that if the market did not support higher oil prices, speculators would not be purchasing contracts for higher prices. If they did, and the oil was not, in fact, priced that highly, they would be stuck with overpriced contracts that would be no use and the cost would be a loss.

Speculators do not cause the price of oil to go up. The oil market causes the future price of oil to continue to be higher.

 

[Wesb737fo]

That's exactly my point. How do you think most Netjets customers traveled the country before Netjets existed? That's right- on the airlines, probably sitting in first class. You lost your bread and butter and they're never coming back. You can raise fares all you want but you'll only lose more trailer trash and continue to park airplanes. Didn't they teach you this at Riddle last year?

Trailer Trash huh? Wow. Such humility. I suppose it would be nice to be raised from such fine outstanding parents like yourself. You turned out really well. I bet your parents must be really proud of you.

Might I remind you, that given the choice of associating with the likes of yourself or the "trailer trash" that can't afford to fly on net-jets, I will choose the latter every time. Unless, of course, I am totally misreading your elitist attitude. Then you have my sincerest apologies.

Wes

 

[Freight Dog]

You can't have something shoot up damn near vertically without it coming down damn near vertically... what goes up, must come down.

Take a look at the housing market - California, Nevada, Arizona... the market is TANKING. Why? Because of a huge spike in home prices fueled by irrational lending practices. Now that it's come to a head with those irrational lending practices and people can no longer afford those shady ARM's, you have record defaults and foreclosures and now the price is in damn near free-fall.

Same thing with oil speculation... how can this nation survive on such a vertical spike in prices? It's simply not sustainable. When the oil prices literally tank this economy, and it looks like we're well on our way, and people really curtail spending like they've started to, you'll see the oil bubble burst... look out below!

The speculators are enjoying this rapid rise just how the real estate speculators enjoyed the rapid rise in home prices from 2002 to 2005.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Hey moron, most of those pax at Netjets used to be YOUR everyday 121 pax. In fact, they used to buy first class tickets. I wonder why they choose to pay more for Netjets?

Hey dipsh!t... no need for name calling. And these guys that are speculators are elitists probably like the guys flying Netjets. They think everything is hunky-dory so long as Jeeves delivers them their caviar on time. Guys like you are the reason I left corporate. Never had a nice thing to say about "other" pilots and they always had a chip on their shoulder, thinking they were the best. I left a 60k Falcon FO job at a good company because the guy I flew with most of the time was an a$$hole. I can just picture you and him holding hands as you two skip into the FBO. All of the other guys in the flight department were great and a blast to hang out with. Guess what,... They were all former 121 pilots. Go figure.

 

[Noserider76]

Users of the commodities buy those contracts for a future date in order to know a certain price for that commodity. For example, an airline may pay slightly higher than the current price for gas two months from now because they think the price is going up, and they want to know for sure what they will pay. So, they can set the price of a plane ticket for that date knowing what their actual cost will be. This is done with all sorts of products.

The problems occur when non-users of a product flood the market in a speculative bubble. Pension funds and traders who never plan to take delivery, drive the prices to frenzied levels for various reasons and end up harming the actual users of the product. Sure many of these speculators will take it in the shorts when the bubble bursts but the damage for many will have been done. There are some products that are too vital to be allowed to fluctuate, without controls, in today's markets. Take a look at what the ethanol idiocy has done to the price of food in many areas of the world.

 

[Quimby]

That's exactly my point. How do you think most Netjets customers traveled the country before Netjets existed?


On chartered Lears, etc......or their own a/c which they might have sold (like my previous employer) to go with a frax.

What do I win, Alex?

 

[blueridge71]

ISpeculation is playing a part in the price, its not the only reason but it is adding at least 30-40 dollars a barrel onto the price.

Just curious if you have any reference for this "fact." The Wall St. Journal reports that 90-95% of the price at the pump is directly attributable to crude oil prices.

A look at the OPEC website (http://www.opec.org/home/basket.aspx) shows the daily basket price astonishingly close to the trading price per barrel. It looks to me that IF speculators are driving up prices (and I havn't seen any evidence that they are other than shrill leftist voices trying to draw attention away from the fact that 90% of our offshore reserves are not being tapped) that they add about $10 per barrel maximum.

I realize that it is much easier to blame an evil capitalist or corporation than to understand the reality that we have royally screwed ourselves, but admitting that we (and when I say "we" I mean the Democrats and their environmental special interests) are a big part of the problem is the first step to fixing it.

 

[blueridge71]

Thanks for a dose of sanity, Milky.

I'll toss in that investors in commodities futures can lose an unlimited amount of money if they guess wrong. Unless you are Hillary Clinton and have a LOT of beginner's luck.

 

[blueridge71]

Same thing with oil speculation... how can this nation survive on such a vertical spike in prices? It's simply not sustainable. When the oil prices literally tank this economy, and it looks like we're well on our way, and people really curtail spending like they've started to, you'll see the oil bubble burst... look out below!

The speculators are enjoying this rapid rise just how the real estate speculators enjoyed the rapid rise in home prices from 2002 to 2005.

There is some truth to this. In the past, when high oil prices have led to a recession, oil demand has tanked and the price fell. Again: SUPPLY and DEMAND.

 

[skiandsurf]

Sad that your entire week revolves around enough papers and ice.

Granted, when it came to the lavs, you guys were the best turd burglers around.

I would rather spend my week getting papers and ice, instead of worrying about fuel costs and furloughs.

And as far as the lav is concerned, thats what line guys are for, and the happily take our tips.

 

[Superpilot92]

Are oil speculators driving up gas prices?

By KEVIN G. HALL

Michael Greenberger said speculation is a major factor, and he knows a lot about the complex global oil market. He directed trading and markets for the Commodity Futures Trading Commission from 1997 to 1999. That body regulates the trading of contracts for future deliveries of commodities, including crude oil. The contracts, called futures, drive oil prices. Greenberger, a law professor at the University of Maryland, told McClatchy why he thinks financial speculation is driving up prices.

How do speculators drive up oil prices?

Speculators are able to drive up crude oil prices today because they're allowed to trade in the U.S. in futures markets not overseen by U.S. regulators. Therefore, they are free to dominate these markets by taking huge positions within them. And there is an additional fear that, because of a lack of oversight, they may be engaging in manipulative practices — i.e., wash sales and false reporting that would be barred in a regulated environment.

What is a "wash sale" and how does it work?

That's a prearranged trade between two or more parties in which there is no economic risk and the sole purpose of which is to give the appearance that the price of a commodity is going higher or lower in a way that does not reflect supply and demand.

Who are these speculators? Do they have names and addresses?

I really cannot answer that with certainty because these unregulated markets are so opaque. Many say that Goldman Sachs & Co. and Morgan Stanley are primary traders on the principal market outside of direct U.S. supervision, the Intercontinental Exchange, otherwise known as ICE. The whole point here is that we need transparency through a thorough investigation to determine precisely what is happening on the Intercontinental Exchange, including who key traders are and the positions they are taking in these markets. That transparency is provided regularly for those exchanges regulated directly by the (futures trading commission).

How much of today's record oil price is attributable to speculation?

There are many estimates being made by observers of these markets, economists and industrial energy consumers suggesting that the price of a barrel of crude oil could be anywhere from 25 percent to 100 percent in excess of what market fundamentals would dictate. For example, (the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries) has recently said that a barrel of crude should not be in excess of $70, and it has opened its own investigation into excessive speculation in these markets to find out what interests are causing the price to be almost double that.

What about supply-and-demand fundamentals? Aren't they behind oil's rising price to some degree?

There can be no doubt that there is a supply-and-demand problem at work here. But many believe, including me, that there's a speculative premium that goes beyond what supply-and-demand factors dictate. And that's what could be drained with aggressive United States regulation.

Can the futures trading commission do something, and if so why hasn't it?

Thirty percent of the U.S. futures trading in United States-delivered West Texas Intermediate crude oil contracts is conducted by the Intercontinental Exchange. Despite the fact that that exchange is owned by an Atlanta-based corporation with trade-matching engines in Chicago, the commission insists that it (ICE) should be regulated by the United Kingdom. It takes this position because the Intercontinental Exchange bought a British petroleum exchange (the International Petroleum Exchange) in 2001.

The Commodity Futures Trading Commission has the power to terminate its deference to British regulation of that Atlanta-based institution trading in the U.S. and controlling 30 percent of the major U.S. crude-oil contracts. They have authority to do so immediately and to bring ICE under full U.S. regulatory oversight.

(The CFTC announced Tuesday that it will condition ICE's access to U.S. contracts on its adoption of the same contract size limitations and accountability measures that apply within the U.S. This is only a partial step toward the regulation that Greenberger calls for; it leaves overall regulation of the ICE under British oversight, which is less rigorous than U.S. rules.)

How does the absence of effective regulation of commodity trading compare to the stock-market excesses of the 1920s?

To the extent that the Intercontinental Exchange operates outside of U.S. limits and controls on speculation, there is very substantial evidence suggesting that United States futures trading on that exchange is akin to the unregulated trading in U.S. stocks in the 1920s. That comparison is aided by the fact that huge positions in these markets can be obtained by speculators with less than 10 percent margin.

(Margin is a requirement that a buyer of a security or commodity put down a certain percentage of the price of the transaction when executing a trade. A low margin requirement invites speculation, since an investor puts less of his own money at stake.

(Low margins were a cause of the 1929 stock-market crash. Since 1974, stocks have had a margin requirement of 50 percent set by the Federal Reserve. For U.S. crude oil futures contracts, margin requirements are generally below 10 percent and are set by market participants, not federal regulators.)