Speaking of speeches...

[Foldem]

I think the concern about the left wing whatever you are looking to hear from involves the choice of liberals that make it on the air as opposed to the validity of ideas.

Jeannine Garafalo and Alec Baldwin aren't the most informed or interesting people to speak for that side of the acceptable spectrum of public debate.

Go find some left wing person writing outside of mainstream media, you might like some of the ideas. Maybe agree with others.

I'd be called liberal, though conservative, and find that I learn more by reading the opposing side of an argument than something I agree with.

 

[Smacktard]

I think the concern about the left wing whatever you are looking to hear from involves the choice of liberals that make it on the air as opposed to the validity of ideas.

'Make it on the air' seems to be the problem with that statement. Jenneane and company are being propped up and Air America's track record shows it (in the red). The problem is the message. They've got lots of beef against the current administration (which is appealing to first time left leaning listeners) but when it comes to solutions, ideals, goals etc, they fall woefully short. It's the same everywhere. Liberals do better when they run as moderates. Why don't they run on what they believe in? ie, guvment...we're the answer.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

What I want is an education for my kids, health care for my aging parents, safe communities to live in, well run low cost utilities and safe roads.

Bush has given us $2+ gas, war in Iraq, the TSA, massive national debt and the Patriot Act (what do you read at the library?). Every time a bush is in power the oil companies get rich while everyone else looses their job and goes broke.

Why do we have to treat each other as if the other guy is Ossama bin Laden? Where is OBL anyway? Bush doesn't want to catch him or it would upset his hand holding pals that run Saudia Arabia.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Here are some suggestions:

1) How about not tossing aside the world's good will towards us after 9-11 and squandering all of our credibility by making a 90 degree turn and attacking a country that had nothing to do with 911?

2) How about holding someone accountable for the "bad intelligence" that led to #1? (Even though we know that bad intel had nothing to do with the decision to go to war.)

3) How about not mentioning 911 when invoking support for the Iraq War? Unless the neo-cons are cynical enough to believe that the gullible masses in this country still buy it.

4) How about waking up to the fact that pollution contributes to global warming and "we won't sign on to Kyoto because it might harm our economy" is a pretty selfish excuse. (Why won't every other country say that?)

5) How about realizing the treatment of prisoners at Gitmo might come back to haunt us someday?

So how do you suggest that we deal with terrorists? Iraq is certainly not free from terrorists or people that would love nothing more than to cause harm to our country.

 

[Traumahawk]

Either is any other country...are you still missing the point everyone above is making??

 

[Cracker]

The 'point' that is illustrated by this thread is that you can support both sides of an argument very well with well picked "facts" and quotes. Just be sure that you listen to the other "facts" to see how they compare with your "facts".

That is why this political season was really good. Most educated adults don't want to simply follow thier leader blindly without anything to base it on. Both sides of the aisle have given compelling arguments to support thier ideas.

Besides, you don't win elections by illustrating how you correct you are. You win them by showing how wrong the other candidate is.

 

[Smacktard]

What I want is an education for my kids, health care for my aging parents, safe communities to live in, well run low cost utilities and safe roads.

Bush has given us $2+ gas, war in Iraq, the TSA, massive national debt and the Patriot Act (what do you read at the library?). Every time a bush is in power the oil companies get rich while everyone else looses their job and goes broke.

Education. We spend more per student than almost every other country on the planet, yet our performance is below that of most other civilized countries on the planet. Bush gave you that? I'd argue that politics, unions and the government being involved in education is to blame for that. Which side do those unions vote on? Which side have they voted on for 50 plus years? Pull your head out.

Health Care. We have the best medicine on the planet, without some control of the massive effects of litigation and high insurance, there isn't any one person to blame for its problems, least of all Bush. As for us caring for your elderly parents, they're the ones that put us in the this situation. You can't create a system of health care that is paid for by those coming behind you. The numbers are showing us the result of that plan.

The TSA. Agree with you completely, Bush caved to the democrat notion that it would be a unionized government agency.

The national debt. So the end of the 90's and high tech firms with over-inflated values had nothing to do with that? What do you think Clinton's budgets were based on? The bubble popped, the economy right sized itself and the Democrats were screaming that the Republicans were going to starve the elderly when they repubs introduced budgets that were only set to grow 5% as opposed the earlier 8%, according to the dems this was a cut of 3% but the program was still growing. Bush sent ridiculously high budgets over to the house and they gleefully kept the money flowing. He certainly hasn't been the most spend thrift Pres. But surely you can't place all the blame at Bush's feet. The culture of the 90's had more to do with that than Bush's 9 months in office before it all came to a screaching halt.

The war in Iraq. While highly debatable, will have some long term effects on keeping at bay those THAT WANT INNOCENT CIVILIANS TO DIE BECAUSE WE DONT SEE THINGS THEIR WAY. You're forgetting that eventually the terrorists will have to be dealt with. They're aren't going to go away. Should we let them fester for another decade and then maybe they can kill 100,000 in one shot? Or should we negotiate with them and sent them money to keep them quite? Clinton tried the 'turn the head the other way' method and look where it got us.

Oil Companies. Ahh, the old Bush is paying back his croonies and Halibuton is getting rich tactic. How about the environmentalists preventing the construction of ONE SINGLE NEW OIL REFINERY in this country since the late 70's? Think that might have some affect on the price of gas? The Gulf of Mexico is getting hit with a hurricane this week, the refineries are shutting down. Gas is up! One refinery has a fire and closes for 3 days, the price of oil is up. Hmmm, maybe we should build a few new refineries the help ease the burden. No way, not here, it might hurt the spotted squirrel.

Typical liberal rants without any solutions other than Bush lied. Time to face the facts, the democrats had control of house and senate for 40 years prior to 1994, with Presidents in half of those years. Do you think those policies might have had some bearing on the state of our nation today? Education, Health Care, Economy, Terrorists. You name it. Sure Bush has had screw ups but how else do expect to undo decades of abuse by the big government/you're not responsible for your own well-being mentality of the Democrats?

 

[PCL_128]

Either is any other country...are you still missing the point everyone above is making??

No one is making a point at all on your side. You all just continue to yell that "Bush lied, people died," and "No blood for oil!" How 'bout (and I know this is very revolutionary for you crazy libs) you try offering some other solutions to the problems instead of just b!tching and whining? I have yet to hear any liberal offer a solution on the Iraq war, yet you all continue to complain. Whenever a liberal is asked whether they think we should leave Iraq, they always say that "No, we can't just leave now. Bush already got us in there. We have to finish it now." Of course, they never say how they would be doing anything differently, they just continue to whine and shout slogans dreamed up by Micky Moore and Ted "I didn't drown that girl" Kennedy. So please Traumahawk, tell us in your great wisdom how you would fix everything in Iraq and fight the war on terror. I wait with great anticipation.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

He didn't really say this did he? I'm surprised Karl Rove's head didn't explode.

He did, it is really quite simple, the liberal press were using unauthorized bluetooth technology which interfered with W's earpiece-speechdelivery unit.
Rove was unable to pull the puppet strings and make the dummie dance, tragic really, W had to rely on his own intellect to create speech material.
BAAAHAAA
PBR

 

[Traumahawk]

No one is making a point at all on your side. You all just continue to yell that "Bush lied, people died," and "No blood for oil!" How 'bout (and I know this is very revolutionary for you crazy libs) you try offering some other solutions to the problems instead of just b!tching and whining? I have yet to hear any liberal offer a solution on the Iraq war, yet you all continue to complain. Whenever a liberal is asked whether they think we should leave Iraq, they always say that "No, we can't just leave now. Bush already got us in there. We have to finish it now." Of course, they never say how they would be doing anything differently, they just continue to whine and shout slogans dreamed up by Micky Moore and Ted "I didn't drown that girl" Kennedy. So please Traumahawk, tell us in your great wisdom how you would fix everything in Iraq and fight the war on terror. I wait with great anticipation.

(First of all...this stereotypical crap you put forth, and your thought process, god help the people who fly with you. Really, I can't imagine some of this doesn't transfer over.)



NOW.....

Let me say this ONE MORE TIME...because you, and a few others are very, very, very slow.

We went to Iraq because Bush led everyone into thinking terrorists would get their hands on Iraq's W of MD!!!
THATS IT! PERIOD. PARAGRAPH.

WE FOUND NONE. Now, look at what we have. It's a mess, and it was an unplanned mess.

Heres couple couple quotes from the beggining of this false advertising campaign. Bush was having a lot of trouble selling the notion of going to Iraq before 9/11. Soon after, he had a reason. Much like Daley trying to close Meigs before and after 9/11.

BEFORE 9/11

24 Feb 2001 - [size=-1]In Cairo, Secretary of State Colin Powell declares: "He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors."[/size]


7 Aug 2001 - [size=-1]President George W Bush declares: "He's been a menace forever, and we will do -- he needs to open his country up for inspection, so we can see whether or not he's developing weapons of mass destruction."[/size]

AFTER 9/11- Pretty much, in terms of time, overnite,
and we see this...

26 Aug 2002 - [size=-1]Vice President Dick Cheney declares: "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt that he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us."[/size]

Nov 2002 - [size=-1]During a speech at the Northwest Arkansas Regional Airport, President George W Bush declares: "This is a man who told the world he wouldn't have weapons of mass destruction, promised he wouldn't have them. He's got them... He said he wouldn't have chemical weapons, he's got them."[/size]


But there were none. A lot of sand. A lot of dust. A lot of bull.

I am not the president. You aren't either...(thank god). Bush was elected as President. His job, is to do what is in the best interest of the American People. (so u don't have to come onto flightinfo and ask me what to do)
Iraq was not in the best interest of our Nation, but even if it HAD been an honest mistake, what the H$LL kind of strategy did the people, who's jobs are to come up with valid warplans, come up with???

They thought it would be a quick win. They were wrong.
Do you remember "Mission Accomplished"?? Do you? Well, not quite.

This is not ONLY your country sir. And it's not only Bush's or the people who supported him for reasons BEFORE this mess. We went there without the support of the country, and without the support of the world. And to put it plainly, I don't care WHERE you get your news.....uh, we got caught with our pants down. Mass bombings, shootings, an enemy we can't target or tactically conquer efficiently, in a form of inner city warfare we have never really experienced on this level. You think we were ready?? Turn on the TV, you think the scene you see was alllll part of the plan after "Mission Accomplished"??

Reread the reason I put at the top of this post. That is the reason we went. It wasn't a good reason for ALL of this. It's not enough to justify the outsome of this blunder. And on top of it, the guys in charge did a lousy job planning this scheme in the first place. The shortage of body armor only adds to the list.

And by the way, you know who is going to pay for all of this?? I bet you do.
When a Dem is elected and raises taxes to even begin trying to balance our budget(again), I'm sure you can rest assured when a Republican like Bush runs against him, the DEM will be hung for raising taxes and being financially responsible. You can bet the ranch. And around and around we go.

T-Hawk

A couple quotes from this wonderfully written artice:

But after more than two years it has finally dawned on the body politic that America was led into a war on a tissue of conceited deceits; a war expected to be fought on the cheap; a war for which the rationale has become an alibi du jour and a war with less of an exit strategy than a Chinese fire drill.

The American people didn't need another ``my dog ate the war plans'' political speech from its president Tuesday night. It's needed, for once, some honesty. If George Bush wanted an appropriate military setting to speak to the country, he had the perfect backdrop in his own backyard - the Vietnam Memorial, as poignant a tribute to bravery as you'll find in this country as well as the high price of quagmires, too.